School Vouchers

[cch5432]

So allow me to ask this question, if a student has special needs and very specific service requirements would the private school be required/forced to provide for this student under your voucher idea?

 

Further, regarding discipline would the private school still be required to educate the student even if the student was expelled under your voucher idea?

Let me research more and give more thought to it, I do not want to answer and misrepresent my position.

[cch5432]

So allow me to ask this question, if a student has special needs and very specific service requirements would the private school be required/forced to provide for this student under your voucher idea?

 

I haven't read this entire thing (yet) but it has some relative points (scroll to page 23). It is speaking about Florida's McKay Voucher program, for special education students:

However, at least one study has compared special education services in public and private schools. Florida’s McKay voucher program allows any disabled student in public schools to move to a private school. An empirical evaluation of the program conducted by Greene and the author compared the services these students had received in their previous public schools with the services they received in private schools through the voucher program.

 

Parents reported much higher rates of satisfaction with their children’s academic progress and services received in private schools; students were also victimized by their peers less often and less likely to exhibit behavior problems. Two thirds of participating families reported that their previous public schools did not provide all the services they were required to provide under the federal special education law, while only 12 percent reported that their private schools didn’t provide services they promised to provide. Students in private schools were served about the same regardless of race, income or disability type.

 

To ensure that students who had unsatisfactory experiences would be included, the authors also collected data on the roughly 10 percent of families who had been in the program in the previous year but were no longer participating. These former participants also reported that their private schools had served them better than their previous public schools. More than 90 percent of them said the program should continue for others, even though they were no longer using it themselves.

This leads me to believe that private schools are capable of providing services to special education students. I'd assume that the market would create schools that cater especially to students who need special education. If not, then the government would need to step in, but I very much doubt that that would be the case.

[cch5432]

Further, regarding discipline would the private school still be required to educate the student even if the student was expelled under your voucher idea?

I guess on this question you have to look at it this way- is education a right or a privilege? I don't believe that free education is a right, but instead a privilege provided by a country that is affluent enough to provide it. If a student can not stay in school for disciplinary problems then they forfeit that privilege.

[Clyde]

Just because a person points out a flaw in the thinking does NOT mean they are against the plan.

 

As I said, before, I AM FOR A VOUCHER SYSTEM. I WOULD VOTE FOR A VOUCHER SYSTEM.

 

But it will not solve all of the education problems in the country as some are trying to say it is a magical cure-all for education.

 

It is not. It has and would lead to a lot of issues. Some that could make school systems WORSE.

 

While I agree about the "cure all" point, we can't wait until we find one before we make serious changes.

[Clyde]

Clyde, you are such a contradiction sometimes. :lol:

 

I agree with you, in this instance. The greater good should prevail.

 

You say "contradiction" I say "independent thinker.":D

[SilverShadow]

I guess on this question you have to look at it this way- is education a right or a privilege? I don't believe that free education is a right, but instead a privilege provided by a country that is affluent enough to provide it. If a student can not stay in school for disciplinary problems then they forfeit that privilege.

 

While you certainly are entitled to your opinion that education is a privilege, the fact is it is not. Rooted in every state constituion is the mandate for each state to provide for public schools. Further, it is case law in, I would say every state and federal law that education and access to education is an absolute and guaranteed right.

 

Now, you draw a reference to it being a privilege instead of a right and you draw a frame of reference as a disicipline consideration. I anticipated your answer but you need to understand if your contention was true as a privilege then a school could say to someone with special needs no thanks. That cannot happen now. But it could and there is really no way you could wiggle around that fact by access being considered a privilege.

[SilverShadow]

I haven't read this entire thing (yet) but it has some relative points (scroll to page 23). It is speaking about Florida's McKay Voucher program, for special education students:

 

This leads me to believe that private schools are capable of providing services to special education students. I'd assume that the market would create schools that cater especially to students who need special education. If not, then the government would need to step in, but I very much doubt that that would be the case.

 

 

I think you need to do a little more research. Under IDEA no way can anyone create schools that cater to students who need special education. That would never change even in this voucher or any voucher debate. You have to accept the constitutional fact that all kids have the right to education that is provided to all students.

 

Also, the government would need to step in but you doubt that would be the case??? How are special needs currently paid for? The fact is these programs are an unfunded mandate that is not compensated by any voucher program and that includes current programs. You do know the costs of the program are currently only covered to 18% of the costs? The local school has to pick up the difference. Did you know that? What market force would conceive the benefit to take on such a cost burden? I know of one case, rather several cases where costs to an individual student runs into the tens of thousands for just one student.

[SilverShadow]

The bottom line is the voucher idea is based on a perceived choice for better program. There is no question in specific areas across the country that would be true. But on a national level the data clearly shows two distinct facts:

 

1) Private education enrollment is on the decline compared to public education enrollment.

 

2) Three distinct and major studies over the past 8 years have concluded the same outcome: Public school test outcomes are marginally and statistically better than private schools. NOT by any real measurable amount but there is a distinct measurement difference in Science. The studies were done by the Christian Science Monitor, Indianna University and the most recent, the US Department of Education.

 

Secretary Margaret Spellings just this past week said the findings were an encouraging surprise to the Bush Administration. Not surprising because the prior announcement of the study was based on a justification to expand a voucher program. Instead, the study put a major hole in it at the federal level.

[SilverShadow]

Would you at least agree that money is inefficiently used in public schools?

 

I asked before - vs. what? Please clarify.