Kidwell named COY in the 16th Region

[Intentional Foul]

As I previously stated "..an utter waste of my time"

[scooterbob]

If you can come up with anything, let us know. You will be the first.

[Intentional Foul]

And therein lies the problem. Scooter looks at posts as person attacks toward him, where there are only winners and losers. I, however, like to take a more mature approach and look at posts as debates where open minded individuals can learn something from each other. A situation where everyone wins.

[LRCW]

The winner deserved the award for the following reasons........................

 

Can someone intelligently and with some factual documentation fill in the ............?

 

 

 

I'll take the bait Scooterbob, even though I'm sure I'll be criticized for it. Coach Kidwell led the Lady Devils to a very impressive 27-6 record for the year, 21-3 within the Region, and 6-1 in the district. If those numbers don't warrant one winning COY, then I don't know what does. Now that isn't to say that Coach Euton wasn't deserving either, but you asked for reasons why Kidwell deserved the award, and I believe I presented you with some. Let me ask everyone who uses the argument, "Well Kidwell didn't win the Region" excuse a question. In 2004 when Tubby Smith led the 2003 Wildcats to a 23-4 regular season record, 13-3 in the SEC, was he not deserving of all of the National Coach of the Year awards simply because he lost to UAB in the 2nd round of the NCAA tournament? Should the award have gone to Mike Washington instead? I believe most of you would answer No, because Tubby won because the voters based it upon the whole years worth of work, not just the NCAA tournament.

[scooterbob]

Debates require facts. You present none. However, if you could present some, possibly I can "learn" from you and "everyone wins".

 

Of course, as Coach Rupp wisely stated, "If winning isn't important, why do we keep score?" His remark was in response to the statement of Grantland Rice that "It matters not who wins or loses but how we play the game." Coach Rupp thought Rice was full of fertilizer and I always agree with the philosophy of Coach Rupp.

[scooterbob]

I'll take the bait Scooterbob, even though I'm sure I'll be criticized for it. Coach Kidwell led the Lady Devils to a very impressive 27-6 record for the year, 21-3 within the Region, and 6-1 in the district. If those numbers don't warrant one winning COY, then I don't know what does. Now that isn't to say that Coach Euton wasn't deserving either, but you asked for reasons why Kidwell deserved the award, and I believe I presented you with some. Let me ask everyone who uses the argument, "Well Kidwell didn't win the Region" excuse a question. In 2004 when Tubby Smith led the 2003 Wildcats to a 23-4 regular season record, 13-3 in the SEC, was he not deserving of all of the National Coach of the Year awards simply because he lost to UAB in the 2nd round of the NCAA tournament? Should the award have gone to Mike Washington instead? I believe most of you would answer No, because Tubby won because the voters based it upon the whole years worth of work, not just the NCAA tournament.

 

You won't be criticized, LRCW. At least you, unlike others, made an attempt at justification. I salute you for the effort.

[LRCW]

You won't be criticized, LRCW. At least you, unlike others, made an attempt at justification. I salute you for the effort.

 

 

I take it my reasons still aren't justification enough for you? :lol:

[scooterbob]

Let's say you offered two bits of evidence in support of the winner. That is better than nothing. However, your references to the departed Tubby are of no materiality but, instead, irrelevant. Please understand, that is not meant as criticism. Merely an observation.

 

I again salute you for offering something positive for the winner. You are the first and you have saved me from the need to offer a justification of sorts myself. Actually, I can do so although it probably isn't as strong as can be made for a couple of others and it would have to include an assumption of subjectivity rather than objectivity on the part of the "voters".

[Intentional Foul]

Scooter, you have supplied one fact as to why Coach Euton should win COY - That her team won the region. I have supplied you with many reasons (facts if you will) as to why Euton, while a good coach, is not a lock for the COY. More specifically:

 

1) RH was given a preseason #3 STATE ranking at the beginning of the season by a well respected newspaper. Thus RH’s defeat in the opening round of state may actually be seen as a disappointment by some (although I am not one of them - I congratulate RH for their postseason success.)

 

2) RH returned 2 Miss Basketball candidates and a player many feel was all-area caliber. In other words, IMO this team should win with even an adequate coach at the helm.

 

3) RH has an excellent Xs and Os assistant coach in Mark Watkins. I know this for a fact because I have played ball with him, talked to him about coaching strategy, and seen him coach form the bench.

 

4) And while this is not a fact, just my opinion, I explained that a good record, though important, does not always determine a great coaching job. Some of the best coached teams end up around .500 due to inferior talent.

 

As previously stated, I am not saying that Kidwell should win the award, so I will not supply facts to support his winning of COY (even though LRCW's post does an excellent job of doing this). My position is that Euton does not automatically win the COY solely because her team went to state. Other area coaches also have positive qualifications that put them in the running.

 

Now that I have stated my position (without getting into reasons why Euton my not be the best choice-something I refuse to do on this forum), Tell me Scooter, what facts besides going to state guarantees that Euton wins the award?

 

In regard to your Rupp comment, I agree that winning is important at the high school level, however if that is all our children learn then high school sports is in a sorry state. Coaches teaching players things such as team loyalty, manners, respect for coaches players and refs, good sportmanship, mental toughness, and I could go on...should be even more important. Remember we are talking about high school kids here, not adults.

[3ptshooter]

Scooterbob, I respect your opinions and I commend you for sticking up for the coaches and players you cheer for but just once can't you be happy w/who wins an award. You seem to debate every decision when it comes to awards given out. POY/COY and I guess Miss Basketball you seem to disagree w/. I am glad I am an outsider looking in at the 16th region internal problems. I for one do not know anything that happened between Rose Hill and the rest of the region but it would be nice for you to fill the rest of the state in on why you feel Rose Hill is always left out of winning any awards.

[scooterbob]

Scooter, you have supplied one fact as to why Coach Euton should win COY - That her team won the region. I have supplied you with many reasons (facts if you will) as to why Euton, while a good coach, is not a lock for the COY. More specifically:

 

1) RH was given a preseason #3 STATE ranking at the beginning of the season by a well respected newspaper. Thus RH’s defeat in the opening round of state may actually be seen as a disappointment by some (although I am not one of them - I congratulate RH for their postseason success.)

 

2) RH returned 2 Miss Basketball candidates and a player many feel was all-area caliber. In other words, IMO this team should win with even an adequate coach at the helm.

 

3) RH has an excellent Xs and Os assistant coach in Mark Watkins. I know this for a fact because I have played ball with him, talked to him about coaching strategy, and seen him coach form the bench.

 

4) And while this is not a fact, just my opinion, I explained that a good record, though important, does not always determine a great coaching job. Some of the best coached teams end up around .500 due to inferior talent.

 

As previously stated, I am not saying that Kidwell should win the award, so I will not supply facts to support his winning of COY (even though LRCW's post does an excellent job of doing this). My position is that Euton does not automatically win the COY solely because her team went to state. Other area coaches also have positive qualifications that put them in the running.

 

Now that I have stated my position (without getting into reasons why Euton my not be the best choice-something I refuse to do on this forum), Tell me Scooter, what facts besides going to state guarantees that Euton wins the award?

 

In regard to your Rupp comment, I agree that winning is important at the high school level, however if that is all our children learn then high school sports is in a sorry state. Coaches teaching players things such as team loyalty, manners, respect for coaches players and refs, good sportmanship, mental toughness, and I could go on...should be even more important. Remember we are talking about high school kids here, not adults.

 

You have stated why, in your opinion, Euton should not have won. I asked you to document why the winner should have won. Is that really too hard to comprehend?

[scooterbob]

Scooterbob, I respect your opinions and I commend you for sticking up for the coaches and players you cheer for but just once can't you be happy w/who wins an award. You seem to debate every decision when it comes to awards given out. POY/COY and I guess Miss Basketball you seem to disagree w/. I am glad I am an outsider looking in at the 16th region internal problems. I for one do not know anything that happened between Rose Hill and the rest of the region but it would be nice for you to fill the rest of the state in on why you feel Rose Hill is always left out of winning any awards.

 

I believe if you check my posts I was very complimentary of the recipient of Miss Basketball. After seeing her perform at Thomas More, though it is the only time I have seen her, I can certainly understand why she won the award. She is a pleasure to watch. I think your concern with my posts is based on my questioning you for your statements about Laura Terry. I still think that, knowing your allegience, it was not becoming.

 

As you stated, you are an outsider and the lack of knowledge you express in your post clearly indicates that. I understand that Emily Queen is the POY for this area and that she is first team all-state as, deservedly so, is your favorite. Thus, your last statement is rather incorrect.

[Intentional Foul]

Scooter, the underlying theme of your posts have been that Euton was treated unfairly by the male voting coaches of this region. You have stated several times in many threads that you feel that 1) Euton was not chosen solely because she has been discriminated against by male coaches and 2) RH does not win year end awards because the region voters conspire against RH. I don't care so much whether Kidwell wins the award than why you feel Euton has been so conspired against by area coaches.

 

My responses have been to show that Euton has not been unfairly treated, but that other coaches may have some claim to the COY award.

 

As I have stated NUMEROUS times I did not say Kidwell was the best choice for the award, all I said was that he should be considered. I DID say however, that I agreed with LRCW and his facts of a 27-6 record, 6-1 district record, and winning the EKC should put him in the running (just like Euton's record should put her in the running , but not guarantee her the award). I have also seen Kidwell coach on many occassions and I do know that he is a good X's and O's coach. Kidwell also is a good disciplinarian, but from talking to several of his players personally that he is still well liked and respected by the players.

 

Now answer my questions - Give me reasons why Euton should be a lock for this award. AND do you believe any area coaches besides Euton qualify for this award?

[scooterbob]

While I disagree with the conclusions reached by you above, for the sake of the exercise, I will attempt to answer your query.

 

It is my belief that Euton should have gotten the award which should surprise no one. I actually like the winner and have a lot of regard for him, his coaching staff, and his program. I don't believe that he deserved the award.

 

A reasonable argument can be made for Bradley and, maybe, Trimble. For sake of space, I'll leave that to the Blazerites and the Racelanders.

 

While it is pointed out that RH was ranked third statewide in preseason, I would submit that that was done based on last year and the fact that two outstanding players were returning. At the same time, the local voters placed RH third in the region. I would think it is reasonable to believe that locals were far more aware of the overall RH talent level than were those not in this area.

 

By tournament time, RH was not remotely rated statewide, as was Russell, and was not expected to win the region, as was Russell. I would think that one would not need to be particularly astute to realize that the rankings at year end are far more important than are the preseason rankings. If that were not true, we may well have a President Howard Dean.

 

It could be argued that RH benefitted from a lucky draw in the region. While that may be true as to the first round, that was not true in the semifinals. Russell got Ashland while RH got East Carter. Russell clearly had, and the results indicate, the easier game.

 

Rose Hill defeated the favored Russell handily in the finals. I would point out that RH was never behind in the game. I believe the only tie was 0-0. RH won by 10 and were never really threatened. That is why I say they won handily.

 

While it is true that RH lost in the first round of the state tournament, I would point out that the Lexington and Louisville newspapers rated RH 16th of the 16 teams in the tournament.

 

Russell won neither the district nor the region. Earlier in the season, they won the EKC tournament. RH won a tournament around Christmas at Boyd County. In light of the teams participating, I would generously call that a wash. Russell won the EKC regular season championship. RH is not in the EKC.

 

I would say that Queen and Terry are, overall, a little better than are Fortman and Okora. However, it is closer than you posters want to admit. I think that most anyone, if honest, would say that Russell had more talent, top to bottom, than did RH.

 

Euton was overlooked last year because the pundits said she had the best talent and should have won. This year, she didn't have the best talent and still won. The winner, on the other hand, had the talent but won neither the district nor the region.

 

I continually read about how the regular season is merely an exercise in preparing for March. Some of you who have used this theory are now backtracking and claiming that it is otherwise. That is not being honest.

 

The goal is to get to Bowling Green. RH got there in spite of the fact that it did not have the best talent in the region. For whatever reason, RH overachieved and Russell underachieved. I wouldn't want to remotely insinuate that the winner caused the underachievement. However, I will state that Euton had a lot to do with the overachievement.

 

Since most feel that March is what counts, I believe the proper choice was obvious. I also believe, for solid reasons, that the choice was much more subjective than objective. You can interpret that however you choose.

 

I realize that this is quite verbal. However, you asked for it. I hope you will take time to read it.

[3ptshooter]

I could care less what you question me about. Obviously, we all have our own opinions. I have no allegiance to anyone as you put it. I just thought Gray was the best player, voiced opinion accordingly, as did the voters.

 

So, are you going to fill the rest of us in about the 16th region as to why everyone is against RH?

 

If you aren't in politics you should consider a career change! I would probably vote for you but fortunately I do not live in the area!