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ChickenWyngz

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We were told over and over and over in February and early March it was not needed. Now, its magically needed on May 11th.

 

Feb 29th, Forbes:

 

Despite COVID-19 Coronavirus, Here Is Why You Should Stop Buying Face Masks

 

Keep in mind that buying most face masks out there can be like purchasing a scented trash bag: a huge waste of money. Many available masks are going to do diddly squat for you.

 

Feb 27th:

 

Doctors debunk masks as protection against coronavirus | KOMO

 

“For the general population, masks are not where we should focus our prevention efforts,” said Dr. Santiago Neme, an infectious diseases expert at UW Medicine.

 

Feb 28th, The Hill:

 

Coronavirus is causing a worldwide panic about face masks. Should you join in? | TheHill

 

The irony is that surgical masks will do little, if anything, to protect you from coronavirus. They are designed to prevent the spread of germs and viruses by the wearer to people nearby,...

...

Health experts say masking large segments of the world’s populations is neither possible nor necessary. The best defense against infection is to stay away from parts of the world where the virus has hit epidemic levels and people who have travelled to those areas.

 

Otherwise, basic hygiene protects against infection by all sorts of pathogens, including the flu and common colds.

 

 

 

March 4th Chicago Daily Herald:

 

DON'T buy face masks unless you have COVID-19! What you should really buy and do

 

Reports of local cases of COVID-19 illness, which is caused by the coronavirus, have led people to stockpile everything from hand sanitizer to face masks, leading U.S. Surgeon General Dr. Jerome Adams to beg Saturday on Twitter, "Seriously people -- STOP BUYING MASKS!"

 

"They are NOT effective in preventing general public from catching #Coronavirus, but if health care providers can't get them to care for sick patients, it puts them and our communities at risk!" Adams continued. The CDC "does not recommend that people who are well wear a face mask to protect themselves from respiratory diseases, including COVID-19."

 

March 1, Sacramento Bee:

 

https://www.sacbee.com/news/nation-world/national/article240780786.html

 

“The average healthy person does not need to have a mask, and they shouldn’t be wearing masks,” says Dr. Eli Perencevich, a professor of medicine and epidemiology at the University of Iowa’s College of Medicine, according to Forbes.

 

“There’s no evidence that wearing masks on healthy people will protect them,” Perencevich said, the publication reported. “They wear them incorrectly, and they can increase the risk of infection because they’re touching their face more often.”

 

 

This article shows that different guidance was given in April though its still notes - WHO says healthy people do not need masks:

 

Update (April 5): The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has now recommended that people wear face masks in public, McClatchy News reports.

 

Health officials say it’s not because surgical masks are any more effective at protecting people from viruses — they’re not — but because wearing masks could help prevent infectious people who are asymptomatic from unintentionally spreading the COVID-19 virus.

 

The World Health Organization has not changed its position, which says marks (sic) are not needed in public for those who don’t already have coronavirus.

 

 

 

So are mask good or needed? Or are they not? The experts at invididual and worldwide organizational levels can not agree. So why should we be pressured into something that is not accepted by the "highest" ranking health organization - WHO. After all - its their declared pandemic.

 

Most people seem just over the whole issue at this point. And they should be. The curve was flattened and killed. Now it seems the goal post has moved and people are more and more angry every day because of that.

 

Personally, I would like to see the restrictions on support persons for hospital patients lifted as a specific action. That specific restriction has far out lived any potential usefulness.

 

What was recommended in the past means little now. We learn more over time that changes opinions and circumstances change. Are there medical advisors recommending masks now?

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We were told over and over and over in February and early March it was not needed. Now, its magically needed on May 11th.

 

Is it not possible that information on COVID-19 has changed? I mean, this disease has existed for, what, 6 months?

 

In the early 20th century lots of medical experts thought smoking helped numerous lung ailments and speech issues. Those recommendations certainly changed as more information became available through studying smoking.

 

Are you expecting the scientific community to have had ALL of the answers and correct recommendations for responding to COVID-19 back in February when the COVID-19 was like 2-1/2 months old?

 

Also, I hope you realize that a lot of the push to keep the general public from buying up face masks was a product of the need to obtain face masks for medical centers. There was a huge shortage two months ago and there was a need to provide face masks for health care workers dealing with COVID-positive patients first-hand every day, so trying to keep the general public from snatching them all up was a first priority. You do remember that that was an issue, right?

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What was recommended in the past means little now. We learn more over time that changes opinions and circumstances change. Are there medical advisors recommending masks now?

 

Is it not possible that information on COVID-19 has changed? I mean, this disease has existed for, what, 6 months?

 

In the early 20th century lots of medical experts thought smoking helped numerous lung ailments and speech issues. Those recommendations certainly changed as more information became available through studying smoking.

 

Are you expecting the scientific community to have had ALL of the answers and correct recommendations for responding to COVID-19 back in February when the COVID-19 was like 2-1/2 months old?

 

Also, I hope you realize that a lot of the push to keep the general public from buying up face masks was a product of the need to obtain face masks for medical centers. There was a huge shortage two months ago and there was a need to provide face masks for health care workers dealing with COVID-positive patients first-hand every day, so trying to keep the general public from snatching them all up was a first priority. You do remember that that was an issue, right?

 

I am just trying to relay how I see the current attitudes, at least on the 'mask thing'.

 

Let me give a cut here.

 

Understanding of the virus changes

The fundemental properties of the virus and its spread were fairly well established early on. It corona virus that has the receptor for ACE-2 cells making it easy to spread. Its small - so even n-95 do not protect you from inhaling it where aerosolized. So the understanding of the mechanics has not really changed.

 

 

Medical people needing masks

 

We all remember that. We were told - you do not need masks - period. Save them for the front line because they are worthless to you - the common person. Thus, either they were lying to us then, or they are lying to us now and it seems they are willing to lie whenever it suits a situation. So the only known thing is - lies were told to the masses. This is what people now see. It is what has them frustrated with all the authoritative figure heads.

 

If people and workers want to were a mask for any reason - sure. But they really only have any possibility of doing something if you assume the wearer is sick and contagious. So the mass masks requirement is helpful only if something that is known not to be the case is assumed to be the case - that there are thousands of sick and contagious people out in public.

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I am just trying to relay how I see the current attitudes, at least on the 'mask thing'.

 

Let me give a cut here.

 

Understanding of the virus changes

The fundemental properties of the virus and its spread were fairly well established early on. It corona virus that has the receptor for ACE-2 cells making it easy to spread. Its small - so even n-95 do not protect you from inhaling it where aerosolized. So the understanding of the mechanics has not really changed.

 

 

Medical people needing masks

 

We all remember that. We were told - you do not need masks - period. Save them for the front line because they are worthless to you - the common person. Thus, either they were lying to us then, or they are lying to us now and it seems they are willing to lie whenever it suits a situation. So the only known thing is - lies were told to the masses. This is what people now see. It is what has them frustrated with all the authoritative figure heads.

 

If people and workers want to were a mask for any reason - sure. But they really only have any possibility of doing something if you assume the wearer is sick and contagious. So the mass masks requirement is helpful only if something that is known not to be the case is assumed to be the case - that there are thousands of sick and contagious people out in public.

 

Let me present you with a scenario:

 

You have one medical face mask, and you have to choose one of two people to give it to. No bargaining, no one gets to make an offer or try to pay you anything, and let's assume you don't personally know anything about either of them except for their careers. One of those people is a respiratory therapist who works in a hospital where they have a dozen coronavirus patients she is helping to treat. The other person is an office worker.

 

Which of those people do you give the mask to?

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I am just trying to relay how I see the current attitudes, at least on the 'mask thing'.

 

Let me give a cut here.

 

Understanding of the virus changes

The fundemental properties of the virus and its spread were fairly well established early on. It corona virus that has the receptor for ACE-2 cells making it easy to spread. Its small - so even n-95 do not protect you from inhaling it where aerosolized. So the understanding of the mechanics has not really changed.

 

 

Medical people needing masks

 

We all remember that. We were told - you do not need masks - period. Save them for the front line because they are worthless to you - the common person. Thus, either they were lying to us then, or they are lying to us now and it seems they are willing to lie whenever it suits a situation. So the only known thing is - lies were told to the masses. This is what people now see. It is what has them frustrated with all the authoritative figure heads.

 

If people and workers want to were a mask for any reason - sure. But they really only have any possibility of doing something if you assume the wearer is sick and contagious. So the mass masks requirement is helpful only if something that is known not to be the case is assumed to be the case - that there are thousands of sick and contagious people out in public.

 

Let's assume they lied. The reason doesn't matter. I can see the trust issue with medical professionals now recommending masks. What does your own knowledge and common sense tell you? Safer with a mask or without a mask?

 

My opinion - anyone who wants businesses to open and stay open will put on a mask when in contact with the public.

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@Bluegrasscard , the way I understand it...and if I'm wrong, please someone let me know...but, the reason for wearing a mask NOW, is that there is the understanding of people having the virus AND being asymptomatic. So, the reason for wearing one now, is not to keep you from GETTING it...it's to keep you from GIVING it.

 

And as has been pointed out here several times, even if you got tested one day, there's no guarantee that you didn't pick it up the following day. So, it's better to err on the side of caution of everyone having it, than to presume that (just because you don't have any symptoms) everyone doesn't have it. Hence the need for the masks. And had there been an overwhelming supply of masks available early on, then that may have been an option to consider. But, there wasn't. So, instead we got social distancing and quasi-isolation, so that the masks that were available, went to the front-line workers.

 

At least that's the way I understand it.

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Let's assume they lied. The reason doesn't matter. I can see the trust issue with medical professionals now recommending masks. What does your own knowledge and common sense tell you? Safer with a mask or without a mask?

 

My opinion - anyone who wants businesses to open and stay open will put on a mask when in contact with the public.

 

 

I think the mask is a non-factor mostly.

 

Let's work with the 'the mask is for others, not you' scenario. And let's work it from two angles - a worker and customer.

 

Customer wearing mask scenerio

 

Mask may inhibit sneezing into someones face (but most people do not do that anyway). It may slow the 'breath' aspect. But the real kicker is the studies and evidence is that casual public interaction (note - this would NOT apply to a metro subway system!) is not a major conduit. So it may help - but not much and not enough to make it a policy.

 

Worker wearing mask scenario

 

A stationary worker, i.e. cashier, is going to contaminate their area if they are really sick and contagious. Its just going to happen, regardless of the plexiglass "barrier", regardless of wiping things down, etc. The area, the surfaces will all become contaminated and be a possible transport after the worker is there for a period of time. The mask merely slows that inevitable process and probably not by much.

 

Thus, I find mask a non-factor in feeling safe. We are all breathing the air and exhaling it. The air is not being collected and sanitized before it is put back into the environment. Wearing masks in outdoor settings is down-right silly in my view. But indoors, an infected, contagious individual will be a problem - mask or no mask.

 

What I do do as a habit now is to take 2 or 3 wipes (kept in car) in everywhere. Wipe down the handles of carts and wipe hands periodically while in a store or grocery. And at the end I wipe off the scanning register and the key pad and the hand held scanner and the screen. Since the entry into the body is usually hands to face I feel this is providing some level protection. I also wipe the steering wheel during and after driving and try to remember to wash hands immediately after coming home.

 

I also have beefed up vitamin-C intake and take multi-vitamins more regularly than before. Some new postings this week tie things to Vitamin D. But as long as we are out in the sun we all should get enough D without supplements, though some people swear by Vitamin D3 as a magic thing. The goodness of a solid immune system is something that seems to have gotten lost in this whole event.

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Let me present you with a scenario:

 

You have one medical face mask, and you have to choose one of two people to give it to. No bargaining, no one gets to make an offer or try to pay you anything, and let's assume you don't personally know anything about either of them except for their careers. One of those people is a respiratory therapist who works in a hospital where they have a dozen coronavirus patients she is helping to treat. The other person is an office worker.

 

Which of those people do you give the mask to?

 

The answer is obvious. But the mask is not going to protect either, as we have all been told. The mask to prevent spread from the individual wearing it, right?

 

To stop any chance of transmission via air the spacesuit approach is needed. Masks are worn by doctors and nurses in surgery to protect the patient, not the themselves.

 

I think there will be some spill over from this event to better protecting medical workers and that will be good. I had no issue with PPE being redirected to the medical workers at all.

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The answer is obvious. But the mask is not going to protect either, as we have all been told. The mask to prevent spread from the individual wearing it, right?

 

To stop any chance of transmission via air the spacesuit approach is needed. Masks are worn by doctors and nurses in surgery to protect the patient, not the themselves.

 

I think there will be some spill over from this event to better protecting medical workers and that will be good. I had no issue with PPE being redirected to the medical workers at all.

 

I had this explained firsthand by an infectious disease MD. Your assumption about wearing the mask to prevent spread from the individual wearing it (bolded) is not completely correct.

 

When an individual wears a mask in public, the intent is to keep them from spreading any of their bodily fluid/saliva/sputum anywhere in public and potentially contaminating things.

 

When a medical professional wears a mask in a hospital, which is an environment with a high saturation of people with COVID-19 in a contained space, the idea is to protect the individual wearing the mask from any potential infection due to the higher likelihood for being directly in contact with COVID-positive people who are directly breathing around them, coughing, sneezing, etc.

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@Bluegrasscard , the way I understand it...and if I'm wrong, please someone let me know...but, the reason for wearing a mask NOW, is that there is the understanding of people having the virus AND being asymptomatic. So, the reason for wearing one now, is not to keep you from GETTING it...it's to keep you from GIVING it.

 

And as has been pointed out here several times, even if you got tested one day, there's no guarantee that you didn't pick it up the following day. So, it's better to err on the side of caution of everyone having it, than to presume that (just because you don't have any symptoms) everyone doesn't have it. Hence the need for the masks. And had there been an overwhelming supply of masks available early on, then that may have been an option to consider. But, there wasn't. So, instead we got social distancing and quasi-isolation, so that the masks that were available, went to the front-line workers.

 

At least that's the way I understand it.

 

I think this deals with the "two-weeks before symptoms" theory. That theory seemed to lack backing in the real world. I posted a NYC doctor here that said symptoms appear in days of exposure - like other viruses.

 

So, the mass masks assume a good portion of the population is actively sick and contagious and spreaders. But nothing supports that assumption.

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I had this explained firsthand by an infectious disease MD. Your assumption about wearing the mask to prevent spread from the individual wearing it (bolded) is not completely correct.

 

When an individual wears a mask in public, the intent is to keep them from spreading any of their bodily fluid/saliva/sputum anywhere in public and potentially contaminating things.

 

When a medical professional wears a mask in a hospital, which is an environment with a high saturation of people with COVID-19 in a contained space, the idea is to protect the individual wearing the mask from any potential infection due to the higher likelihood for being directly in contact with COVID-positive people who are directly breathing around them, coughing, sneezing, etc.

 

Thanks makes sense.

 

It is interesting that face shields are the other component that medical professions are leveraging as well. Both the masks and the face shields would stop direct transmission from cough, sneeze, spit. And this protection is useful in small tight exam rooms and close quarters. But neither would stop the "airborne/aerosolized" scenarios if the virus were just floating around in mid-air for extended periods.

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I heard a theory today that blood thinners could possibly mitigate CV. Only a theory; I’m not advocating that we all go out and hoard all the Warfarin and Eloquis.

 

But if true, I ought to be invincible.

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I heard a theory today that blood thinners could possibly mitigate CV. Only a theory; I’m not advocating that we all go out and hoard all the Warfarin and Eloquis.

 

But if true, I ought to be invincible.

 

Same here. Was hoping that could change with 3rd PVA but holding off till support people are allowed in hospitals for overnight procedures.

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I heard a theory today that blood thinners could possibly mitigate CV. Only a theory; I’m not advocating that we all go out and hoard all the Warfarin and Eloquis.

 

But if true, I ought to be invincible.

 

If that's true, it makes me feel good about my 83 year old dad that refuses to let me do his grocery shopping. Stubborn old man, I know where I get it lol

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I heard a theory today that blood thinners could possibly mitigate CV. Only a theory; I’m not advocating that we all go out and hoard all the Warfarin and Eloquis.

 

But if true, I ought to be invincible.

 

That ties in to another CV19 item I have read about. In younger people under 40 who have the virus there is a higher risk of blood clots and strokes.

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