No tears are being shed. Just the arguments being thrown out there. Earlier I was going to say how much I respected your solo, non-finger pointing mantra of "just win", but I see you've gotten into a new level of class.

 

Touchy. Maybe I should have said complaining, arguing, etc; however I was reusing a word that was previously used to define all of Louisville. It’s regrettable that my post has caused the Manual fans to see me as apparently classless. However, it has not reduced the legitimacy of the phrase. Just win. Or Manual can complain, argue, or dare I say cry, and have a built in excuse when they lose in the first round. Your choice.

I can undersatnd what you mean...

 

If I was doing the draw I would automatically eliminate the 1/2 vs 7/8 matchup possibilities before drawing (& never have that combo in the rotation due to travel).

It may be "technically" inequitable that 1/2 never has to face 7/8 but I have no idea who or how that effects various teams in the 4 classes (as decisions should be made IMO). That still gives a nice variety with a rotation of 5 different regions to play against. Nothing is going to be perfect - this seems worth trying

 

Woody Jr

 

I think the KHSAA could have used this to really build excitement around the playoffs. How about doing this at the beginning of the season? Or after the regular season. And invite all the media into a big room. Broadcast it live, etc. It would be like the NBA lottery. But they would not be able to control the outcome that way, and that would be B-A-D.

But they would not be able to control the outcome that way, and that would be B-A-D.

:laugh:

I can undersatnd what you mean...

 

If I was doing the draw I would automatically eliminate the 1/2 vs 7/8 matchup possibilities before drawing (& never have that combo in the rotation due to travel).

It may be "technically" inequitable that 1/2 never has to face 7/8 but I have no idea who or how that effects various teams in the 4 classes (as decisions should be made IMO). That still gives a nice variety with a rotation of 5 different regions to play against. Nothing is going to be perfect - this seems worth trying

 

Woody Jr

 

I do like this suggestion. As I mentioned waaaaay up the line, one of the things that doesn't add up was the possibility of 1/2 vs. 7/8 because if your goal is less travel how could the possibility of Hoptown going to Ashland in round 3 possibly be better than them going to BG? If you removed those specific matchups (1 could still play 2-6, 8 could still play 3-7, etc.), then you'd at least get rid of that monster.

 

Of course, the dirty truth is that that was of course not what they were going for....

I do like this suggestion. As I mentioned waaaaay up the line, one of the things that doesn't add up was the possibility of 1/2 vs. 7/8 because if your goal is less travel how could the possibility of Hoptown going to Ashland in round 3 possibly be better than them going to BG? If you removed those specific matchups (1 could still play 2-6, 8 could still play 3-7, etc.), then you'd at least get rid of that monster.

 

Of course, the dirty truth is that that was of course not what they were going for....

That's crazy talk. Don't question the integrity of the KHSAA.

Ram2003 posted:

Now, if someone could please explain to me the BENEFITS of this new schematic, and stop all the childishness, I think we'd all not only see things a lot clearer, but we might actually come up with answers.

 

 

There are benefits and there are detriments to this new schematic. As I posited in an earlier post, and immediate beneficiary is St. X. The Tigers get to split a possible huge payoff pot with the Shamrocks if a Saint X- Trinity game materializes in game three of the playoffs. The two have been meeting fairly regularly for the state title but all the proceeds in that game went to the KHSAA, who will no longer regularly reap the rewards of the old system that often pitted the Tigers and Shamrocks in the state title game. Additionally, St. X will profit from the new schematic because if the bell shaped curve holds true about 50% of the time St. X will play in the Eastern region, which is historically the weaker region. Trinity will benefit in the short run but the new system made be detrimental to the Shamrocks in the long run. They may have the opportunity to share the big payout in the potential St. X-Trinity game three of the playoffs. However, in the long run, the bell shaped curve may work to their disadvantage because they should have to play 50% of their post-intradistrict games in the Western region, most recently the more difficult region.

 

As your compadre, 02Ram54, has been pointing out, the big losers are PRP, Butler and Manual. He is accurate when he forecasts that it will be virtually impossible for Manual ever to win a state championship under the new schematic. It was virtually impossible for Manual to win a state championship under the old system (they had not won a state title since 1966). The difference, though, is that under the old system Manual had a punchers chance to go three or four deep in the playoffs. Now, almost every year their first two games will be against Male and then St. X, and because they should finish below those two teams in the regular season they will seldom be the home team. St. X will have their stadium completed after this year, so Manual will no longer have the luxury of playing the “away” game against X at home. Manual doesn’t go as deep in the playoffs, losing revenue from extra playoff games and school spirit is stifled from a steady diet of one and out or two and out post seasons. Ditto for PRP and Butler.

Again, I believe I replied to the points in each post.

People complained about how unfair it was for Manual so thats who I used for a comparison. No one has yet countered the No 3A comparison I used. You are free to enter any Lou school you wish instead of manual - thats my point as well.

 

Now the debate is over "this plan to stop the public/private split"

and that it ruins 4A? - is that correct?

 

If how it ruins 4A is your cries of the 2 best teams arent playing in the final - then thats no debate, as shown elsewhere. If it's something else please state specifically.

 

A ploy to stem the public/private split - perhaps indeed it is ?.

But your point is what?

Do you want the split?? If yes, say so.

If not, then say what you feel should be done instead of this.

I havent' seen anything at all from you guys about that point. The unfairness issue keeps getting rehashed... Don't just complain give us something to compare it with - besides the status quo.

 

Woody Jr

Again you aren't reading my post and are twisting it. I am AGAINST the split and against this way of doing it because both weaking 4A.

 

I already have explained what I think should be done. Woody why are you beating a dead horse?!!! I said I prefer a 5A system to this mess and I also preferred the status quo with a few ideas that both public and private can agree to that limits the range a player can be drawn from.

Now please point out to me when the last time ANY TEAM has beaten X Male and Trinity all in a row on the way to a state title?

 

It hasn't happened since 1980.

 

But there have been several years where a team beat two of the three (and didn't play the third).

 

Valley beat both Male and St. X before losing to Warren Central in 1990.

 

In 1987, Holy Cross beat Male and St. X in the first two rounds before losing to Shelby County in the SFs.

 

In 1984, Ballard beat Male, Southern and St. X in the first three rounds before losing to Christian County in the championship game.

OK, so Manual is getting hosed with the new system. Can anyone name five other teams not named Manual that have seen their chances at a deep run in the playoffs extremely hamstrung by the new agreement?

OK, so Manual is getting hosed with the new system. Can anyone name five other teams not named Manual that have seen their chances at a deep run in the playoffs extremely hamstrung by the new agreement?

Male, Butler, PRP, Ballard, Eastern, Fern Creek,Shelby County, Iroquois and potenially St. X and Trinity.

OK, so Manual is getting hosed with the new system. Can anyone name five other teams not named Manual that have seen their chances at a deep run in the playoffs extremely hamstrung by the new agreement?

X, Male, Trinity, Ballard and Fern Creek. Let me know if you want more.

Still can't acknowledge the comparison, eh? :sleep:

 

The Ram debate has been about Manuals "unfair" gauntlet

I say it's no worse than the #3/4 stepchildren to CCH & HHS for many years

I never said or suggested anyone can/will beat the big 3. I hope:thumb:

My debating partner tries to use Lex Cath as a comeback (an obvious new powerhouse -in a DIFFERENT district)

He just can't seem to bring himself to acknowledge the very similar comparison between No Ky 3A teams facing CCH & HHS in their district and Manual dilemna of having X & M in their district.

That 3A district has more titles than X & M (past 20yrs?) AND the East side of 3A have vastly more titles than Manuals side in 4A I believe.

Hence other teams have a MORE difficult time winning a state championship

 

Woody Jr

I don't know how many Grant Co or South oldham posters are out there, but I'd be willing to bet that if thier playoff run were changed to include CCH, HHS, and then Lex Catholic for the first three rounds they aren't that happy about it.

 

I will say what I said before, Manual, Butler and PRP, previously had the toughest road to the championship of any team in the state of Kentucky. The new sytem now makes it tougher for them to advance while making it easier for the rest of the state. Is it hard to understand why we would prefer to do without the new system? Call us whiners and cry babies if it makes you feel better, but your not walking in our shoes.

Male, Butler, PRP, Ballard, Eastern, Fern Creek,Shelby County, Iroquois and potenially St. X and Trinity.

 

OK. What about any team outside of Louisville or 4A? I haven't seen anyone from the lower classes express too much displeasure with it. Looking at the overall picture, I don't think too many people outside of 4A Louisville are going to complain as much as 4A Louisville. While it appears to be a bugger for Louisville 4A, it seems to be a decent setup for the bottom three classes.

OK. What about any team outside of Louisville or 4A? I haven't seen anyone from the lower classes express too much displeasure with it. Looking at the overall picture, I don't think too many people outside of 4A Louisville are going to complain as much as 4A Louisville. While it appears to be a bugger for Louisville 4A, it seems to be a decent setup for the bottom three classes.

Maybe because it wasn't designed to effect them any way???

Maybe because it wasn't designed to effect them any way???

Or maybe because Louisville believes high school football revolves around them when it does not. As the biggest city in the state, they should be a power in the state's biggest class. But what have Louisville schools done at the lower classes? Last time I checked, there were Louisville districts in 3-A. Maybe the khsaa has an entire state to look out after when making decisions such as these instead of nine or ten Louisville schools.