Will anyone ever be satisfied. First they complain about a watered down title, Now they complain that the best two teams may not make the final game. It's not like the it always happened in the old format either. Since all of the complaints seen to be about 4A and the big three, how about this idea. Make a 5A class to include H, X & T only. They could have a round robin tournament for a playoff. It's not watering down anything since you all presume (rightfully so) that these will be the best 3 teams and the best 2 teams will make the final. Of course I'm not serious.

 

When was the current format implementated? I'm guessing in 95 since in 94 it was a Trinity / Boone final, which couldn't happen with todays districts.

 

It looks like the opinion is that the teams hurt the most by this are Manual / PRP. But will it really make a difference. Sure it may be harder for them to reach a state final game, but only once in the last 11 years has a team represented the western regions in 4A football that wasn't named St. X or Male. So how different will it be. About 80% of the time the 4A title will be won by X, T & H, irregardless of the format or who draws who. Nothing has changed with the exception that most of the other 4A schools will now have the false preception that they now have a better chance to win a state title. But in reality it will still rotate between the same 3 schools with only an occasional spoiler.

I hate this change in the postseason format.

 

It's my understanding that the football coaches' advisory commitee was pushing this, citing travel issues. I'm becoming convinced that the panel is full of whiners and complainers.

 

So what if a team has to travel in the early rounds? If you want home games for the playoffs, get better and finish first or second in your district.

 

I like teams from different districts facing each other in the early rounds of the playoffs. Guaranteed rematches in the first two rounds just don't excite me ... sure, rematches happen fairly often in the playoffs, but at least the teams earned their way there by beating a team from the adjacent district.

 

What is the purpose of this? Guaranteeing each district a representative in the final eight of each class? Big deal ... to me, it seems like the coaches' panel (with this idea and their push for six classes) is more about making things easier on their coaching brethren (and helping their job security) than the betterment of football.

 

I really don't have a problem with a draw once you get to the third round, but the implementation of it now (and a possible Trinity-St. Xavier third-round clash next fall) seems awfully fishy to me. It seems like this is a way to appease some of the 4A schools and get the private-school issue off of the front burner.

 

Bottom line ... it seems that the whiners and complainers are getting their way.

Also, this proposal doesn't seem to provide incentive for regular season performance other than playoff slot. You could go 10-0 and not be a district champ. Under old system, you played regular season for a district title, and then 3 games for a region title. Now, you play a whole regular season and 2 playoff games for a district crown, and just one game to put "Region Champ" on your banner.

 

I'm getting a creeping feeling of not liking this . . .

Yes, a true case of region championship being a state title game for us common folk to see who can't make it to the Pizza Box.

 

Wonder if KHSAA will select neutral sites to play on "at random" beginning with the region final?

 

 

That would be great - as per Ohio

 

Just not sure that we have enough support throughout and good enough fields (though I think facilities have/are greatly improved in EKy)

Perhaps that would be one way of increasing interest across the state though ??

 

Woody Jr

That would be great - as per Ohio

 

Just not sure that we have enough support throughout and good enough fields (though I think facilities have/are greatly improved in EKy)

Perhaps that would be one way of increasing interest across the state though ??

 

Woody Jr

 

The more I think about it, the more I really don't like the idea of neutral sites.

 

One of the reason you perform during the regular season is to get a home field advantage. Heck, that's part of football.

 

Though HS football fans in Ky. are devout, truth is less than the whole town is going to travel for a big game (unless you're Corbin). Takes away from the playoff experience, IMHO.

 

Another notch against the new format.

When was the current format implementated? I'm guessing in 95 since in 94 it was a Trinity / Boone final, which couldn't happen with todays districts.

I can't remember the exact year....but:

 

1991: Clark beat us in the semi's then X in the finals meaning that we could've played in the championship....

 

1994: X beat Male, then lost to Fern Creek, who lost to Boone, who lost to US.....

 

So it was before then....now that I think of it we beat Manual in 1988 in the championship, so it must have been before then.

I really don't have a problem with a draw once you get to the third round, but the implementation of it now (and a possible Trinity-St. Xavier third-round clash next fall) seems awfully fishy to me. It seems like this is a way to appease some of the 4A schools and get the private-school issue off of the front burner.

I agree 100%

I'll grant you that Lawrence County was an underdog, but by 40 points? Come on ... will it be 50 in 10 more years?

LC was the 4 seed that had pretty much won out their last half of the schedule after a tough start. Russell drilled us at home by 30+ earlier in the year. We went to Sheldon Clark the 1st round and won a tough game by 2 TD's. We then went to Russell without our starting QB and won in double overtime. The score was 6-6 at the end of regulation in a mud bowl. That game had a line of 30+ also. Oddly enough we played Mason Co who was the 3 seed I think in the Regional Championship. We stopped them on the 3 yard line as time expired to go on to the final four. Mayfield was ranked #1 or 2 along with Danville. I think they were 2. Danville only beat them by a FG that year in the championship I think. I wasn't kidding when I said 40 points in the paper. It had the makings to be the biggest cinderella story in the history of the state if it would have played on out. That title goes to Bourbon Co though because they sealed the deal.

Anyways back to the subject:D

The teams playing in the games get NO money from the gate so what do they care??? The schools won't suffer any from a drop in attendance, it will only be the KHSAA coffers. I fail to see how this would hurt the "county schools" all that much...

Actually they DO, only the finals gate go to the state.

I can understand the travel and I can understand how frustrating it is for some teams that are stuck in powerhouse regions while other teams have a MUCH easier path. I feel for a guy like Bill Tom Ross who did a great job at Raceland but always had to face that Northern KY 1A District in the playoffs. For those guys I understand the gripe and think it is a valid issue that a rotating Region would be nice.

4A I can see why there is such frustration for the Louisville schools. It is refreshing to think about somebody new in the 4A title game until I think back on that game a couple of years ago:(

Woody, I have been following your posts and they are excellent. But you are wasting your time. It is like me fighting the seeding issue in Basketball. Proponents want to always argue that the best teams dont get to the region tournament and it cheapens it for two top teams to meet in a district elimination opener. But when you point out that you could have 4 teams in one district that are clearly better than 4 in another district, you still allow two from the weaker district to advance to the region. Does that not cheapen it?

 

Unless you plan to seed the entire state AFTER the season you can never set forth a playoff system to TRY to get the best teams to the state final. If playoffs in any form are geographically situated you can NEVER get the two best teams to the state finals with any certainty. Your points about Cov Cath-Highlands is equal to New Cath-Beechwood, I feel to a reasonable belief that many years those teams have been the two best teams in the state in their respective classes. Quite possibly Russell and Belfry were the two best teams in Class AA the past two seasons, is their an uproar or screaming for changes to get these two teams to Papa Johns?

 

My team, Raceland along with our district bretheren will have the opportunity to advance farther in this system since we traditionally have to face NewCath-Beechwood in the opening rounds. We have never gotten to see how we stack up with other areas of the state, because we were annually just a speed bump on the way to another NKY Class A Title. I can see this actually generating more interest in the state and seeing some teams improve their games by advancing deeper in the playoffs and seizing that moment of building a program, that traditionally had their playoff hopes crushed early and violently against the same teams year in year out.

 

If your teams are the best they can win in any format. Line them up and play them. Louisville should be progressive and embrace change. It is us uncivilized members of the state that normally get accused of never wanting to move or change. Looks like the city slickers are the ones that dont want change since they seem to have a good thing going.

This whole thing really comes down to adverse impact on 2 schools - 1)Manual, traditionally the third place finisher in 4A Region 2 District 4 and EITHER PRP or Butler, traditionally the fourth place finisher. The other one of the two typically does not make it in anyway and cannot claim to be impacted. I don't see the argument for Ballard. Ballard is almost always 2nd, with Fern Creek and Shelby jockeying behind them, and their talent level is on a par with the NKY schools they usually face in the first round under the old system.

 

So we get back to Manual and PRP/Butler. The problem with PRP/Butler in the #4 slot is that they historically have not fared too well against the #1 from Region 2, District 3 (John Hardin last year), so where does the argument go? If you can't win under the current system much, who cares if you're falling to JH or falling to X? Its still going to take a great year and great effort to get past the hump in the first round.

 

So we really come to Manual, which is why all of the Rams on this site are yelling the loudest, being sacrificed under this new proposal. Everything lining up as normal, they would have to get past Male and then X to get to a region final, rather than their traditional Meade County and then X situation.

 

Of all the schools in Louisville that I consider to be most resilient, it is DuPont Manual. I know a huge number of doctors, lawyers, and other professionals in Louisville that would rather send their children to Manual than to T or X because they consider Manual a better school. Its academic variety, history, and flavor transcends athletics so much that I see no adverse impact upon Manual as a result of this. I think they will perservere.

 

And sacrificing Manual to avoid a split is a fair price.

That is the mentality it seems, as long as it is just Manual or just Louisville schools, then who cares. I am sure that was taken into account. That is why this will work, it will split up the public schools as a group and pick them apart and then nobody will do anything as the status quo continues, and everyone will be fine with that. In the mean time the quality of 4A football will likely decline in Louisville public schools and Trinity and St. X will have to schedule more Cincy teams to keep competitive. Basically I think that this is bad for 4A football, same reason I was not for the public private split originally, competitive teams make for better teams and more D1 opportunities for our players.

That is the mentality it seems, as long as it is just Manual or just Louisville schools, then who cares. I am sure that was taken into account. That is why this will work, it will split up the public schools as a group and pick them apart and then nobody will do anything as the status quo continues, and everyone will be fine with that. In the mean time the quality of 4A football will likely decline in Louisville public schools and Trinity and St. X will have to schedule more Cincy teams to keep competitive. Basically I think that this is bad for 4A football, same reason I was not for the public private split originally, competitive teams make for better teams and more D1 opportunities for our players.

I have NO DOUBT it will hurt the progression of NKY 4A football...

Does anyone else feel that with these automatic matchups between district teams in the first 2 rounds that the chances for a lower seed to pull the upset are much higher because it's more of a familiar "local" rival and/or someone they have a great grudge/rivalry with ??

 

I'm going with the premise that since so many always say it's hard to beat a team twice, that the #1 & #2 seeds may not like this setup as much because they will have to face a more "heated" emotional game TWICE as opposed to more of a "detached" playoff game.:confused:

[i admit that sometimes a 1/4 rematch can possible be a worse blowout and maybe the lower seeds are psyched out, and in some cases there may be less hope or interest. I also admit that playing the opposite district can be any or all of the above. I'm just throwing this out for some contemplation - not as a 100% fact]

 

If higher seeds do normally prevail I can see some tremendous 2nd round games (even if they are rematches!). Look back at your teams playoff matchups the last several years. Would a #1 vs #2 rematch(or other combo) be a good game or a bad game? Do you think you could have beat the other district teams the 2nd time around and got yourself into a blind draw playoff matchup? It sounds rather interesting to me to give it a try.

 

Lets not scream about change smply because its different :dancingpa

 

Woody Jr

I have NO DOUBT it will hurt the progression of NKY 4A football...

 

 

gt,

when time could you give me a little background on why it hurts NKy 4A football? I have felt like NKY and some others are beginning to get on the right track to break up the dominance. Maybe Im wrong

 

I was always curious if the opening of Ryle isnt what "delayed" NKY's improvement somewhat.

Woody Jr