What is the process and accountability of evaluating basketball officials?

[BirdBrain]

I did not speak to a coaches ability to "scratch" an official...that is a huge accountability issue, whether it is objective or not is up for debate.

[Mr.Viking]

I'll bite:

 

Disclaimer: The following is an overview, each association governs differntly. It is also lengthy :thumb:

 

The KHSAA does not employ officials.

 

To be an official in the KHSAA you must pass the Part I test.This demonstrates basic competency of rules knowledge.

 

Each Region(s) has a designated association, governed by a board of control. The BOC is made up of coaches, AD's, administrators and officials representative of that Region(s). They govern and set up the expectations for all the independent contractors (officials) who belong to that association. This includes training expectations, participation / attendance expectations and generally how games will be assigned, as well as the administrative management of assignments.

 

Each official pays an annual fee to KHSAA for licensing and a fee to the association to be a member.

 

Each association typically support some type of summer high school camp by providing officials and that becomes a primary training and evaluation ground for all officials, new and seasoned. Based on that information, preliminary decisions about level and ability are made. Officials receive no reimbursement for this work.

 

Each association is required to hold training meetings, anywhere from 4 - 8 typically. These occur usually in the later summer / fall timeframe. Review of rules, points of emphasis, video review of plays, walk throughs, Q&A of questions / scenarios and maybe most importantly guest speakers that speak to the nuances of the game. High school and college coaches as well as high school, college and even in some cases NBA officials speak to the groups. Officials recieve no reimbursement for these trainings.

 

Immediately prior to the season, some associations also provide officials for "hoop fests" etc...similar to summer ball. The use of video, with running commentary on position, performance, etc... is not uncommon.

 

During the season most officials are evaluated by the assigner at least once, if not multiple times. Not uncommon for this to be 2 -4 times. Typically handwritten notes and brutally honest assessments.

 

Accountability: as a general rule of thumb as an official: If you kick a rule, you lose a game. This is not a financial hardship penalty, it's a behavior modification principle. If you put the time in to do all I said above, then you kick a rule and lose a game, it becomes a personal penalty. Far more intense is the individual accountability between and amongst officials in their own locker room. We'll leave it at that. Bottom line: if you continually and consistently perform poorly amongst your peers, you can easily be consumed by them.

 

So I think I probably answered your questions....time for you:

 

Where did you form your basis for all the accusations about lack of accountability and competency ? If you needed to be enlightened to the extent that I believe you just were....how in the world could you form an opinion by just paying $4 at the door and sitting your self in the stands ? Omnipotence ?

 

I am ready to be enlightened !!

 

1) Get a rule book and pass a written test, all the while using a rule book to complete it?

2) In talking to former coaches who run these summer camps, officials are always compensated when they come to summer camps.

3) Never talked to an official who was critiqued by a coach, HS or college, much less an NBA official.

4) Never seen or heard of an official losing a game for kicking a rule. When have you seen it?

5) The officials I know in 3 different regions never "consume their own" Most are friends and would never throw each other under the bus.

 

Looks like our experiences with officials are very different.

 

In answering your questions, again I have never seen an official lose a game for any reason. So, if there is no consequence for poor performance, there is no accountability. For part 2, I have been on the bench and in a number of meetings with assignors and even when the assignors admitted that the official was wrong, it was quickly followed with "He's one of our best and our numbers are down". And I have seen those same offficials in the boys or girls state tournaments. Now, what are your qualifications?

[Clyde]

1) Get a rule book and pass a written test' date=' all the while using a rule book to complete it? 2) In talking to former coaches who run these summer camps, officials are always compensated when they come to summer camps. 3) Never talked to an official who was critiqued by a coach, HS or college, much less an NBA official. 4) Never seen or heard of an official losing a game for kicking a rule. When have you seen it? 5) The officials I know in 3 different regions never "consume their own" Most are friends and would never throw each other under the bus. Looks like our experiences with officials are very different. In answering your questions, again I have never seen an official lose a game for any reason. So, if there is no consequence for poor performance, there is no accountability. For part 2, I have been on the bench and in a number of meetings with assignors and even when the assignors admitted that the official was wrong, it was quickly followed with "He's one of our best and our numbers are down". And I have seen those same offficials in the boys or girls state tournaments. Now, what are your qualifications?[/quote']

 

I know of no official who has been compensated for attending a camp. Heck, we pay to go.

 

How would you know if an official lost a game?

[Mr.Viking]

My school has a camp where 10-12 teams come to play during the summer. Our assignor will get us officials; we pay them about 1/2 of what they get during the regular season and the assigning secretary usually comes to evaluate. We couldn't get officials if we didn't pay them SOMETHING.

 

Because I am VERY good friends with a couple of assigning secretaries. It's almost like the inmates are running the asylum because the assignors are scared of losing an official.

[Clyde]

My school has a camp where 10-12 teams come to play during the summer. Our assignor will get us officials; we pay them about 1/2 of what they get during the regular season and the assigning secretary usually comes to evaluate. We couldn't get officials if we didn't pay them SOMETHING.

 

Because I am VERY good friends with a couple of assigning secretaries. It's almost like the inmates are running the asylum because the assignors are scared of losing an official.

 

That's different from camps BirdBrain and I are referring to. Refs will get paid for working scrimmages/team camps. We're talking about camps where you go get instruction. I worked the Ohio state AAU tourney a few years ago. Paid $150 - got no money in return. I did get some classroom work with D1/NBA officials as well as in-game evaluations. It was a true instructional camp(and cheap labor).

[Mr.Viking]

Is that what they do at the KBA during the summer?

[Clyde]

Is that what they do at the KBA during the summer?

 

Not sure. Probably. I've never worked there. Mine was in Cincinnati.

[BirdBrain]

1) Get a rule book and pass a written test, all the while using a rule book to complete it?

2) In talking to former coaches who run these summer camps, officials are always compensated when they come to summer camps.

3) Never talked to an official who was critiqued by a coach, HS or college, much less an NBA official.

4) Never seen or heard of an official losing a game for kicking a rule. When have you seen it?

5) The officials I know in 3 different regions never "consume their own" Most are friends and would never throw each other under the bus.

 

Looks like our experiences with officials are very different.

 

In answering your questions, again I have never seen an official lose a game for any reason. So, if there is no consequence for poor performance, there is no accountability. For part 2, I have been on the bench and in a number of meetings with assignors and even when the assignors admitted that the official was wrong, it was quickly followed with "He's one of our best and our numbers are down". And I have seen those same offficials in the boys or girls state tournaments. Now, what are your qualifications?

 

So in conclusion since you have talked to coaches, officials are always compensated. Since you have never talked to an official who was critiqued by a coach, HS or college, or and NBA official it never happens. Never heard of an offical losing a game, it never happens. And because you know officials in 3 different regions, they never "consume their own".

 

This is rock solid logic all the way around, not to mention circular in nature.

 

I am, and I believe Clyde as well, although I won't speak for him personally, fully qualified to comment...but I honestly thought anyone with a shred of objectivity could have picked that up from my prior post.

 

BTW: You wouldn't know if an official lost a game for kicking a rule, you're not entitled nor should you be entitled to privileged information.

 

No one will ever convince you of anything different than what you believe you know.....go with that, the world needs more sheep at the bottom of the cliff.

[Big East Zebra]

1) Get a rule book and pass a written test, all the while using a rule book to complete it?

2) In talking to former coaches who run these summer camps, officials are always compensated when they come to summer camps.

3) Never talked to an official who was critiqued by a coach, HS or college, much less an NBA official.

4) Never seen or heard of an official losing a game for kicking a rule. When have you seen it?

5) The officials I know in 3 different regions never "consume their own" Most are friends and would never throw each other under the bus.

 

Looks like our experiences with officials are very different.

 

In answering your questions, again I have never seen an official lose a game for any reason. So, if there is no consequence for poor performance, there is no accountability. For part 2, I have been on the bench and in a number of meetings with assignors and even when the assignors admitted that the official was wrong, it was quickly followed with "He's one of our best and our numbers are down". And I have seen those same offficials in the boys or girls state tournaments. Now, what are your qualifications?

 

 

I'll bite.

 

Yes we take an online test and yes we get to use the open book to take it.

 

I went to camp last summer, cost me $150.00 to attend. I was critiqued by other assignor's, D-1 officials, (how about a name drop Tommy Eades) and NBA officials. I paid my way, my gas, my eats. Work 4-5 games a day and made $0.00.

 

This year, I kicked a rule, knew as soon as I did it. My assignor called me asked me about it. Told him I did it, knew I did it as soon as I did it. I lost a game because of it. I took my medicine like a man.

 

Our officials in our region, while we are friends and have each other's back's, we are continuing to hold each other accountable. To be a good partner and to act professional.

 

I officiate because I love the game. Let me say this again, I OFFICIATE BECAUSE I LOVE THE GAME! I'll be the first to admit, I'm not the best, but I can tell you this, I work hard to improve every time I walk on the court. When I miss a call, I don't need the crowd or coach to say a word, I know I missed it and I'm upset with me when I do.

 

But it burns my behind to hear someone pay their $5.00 to get in the game when they don't know what I do. Every day I'm at the gym, making sure I stay in shape and the older I get the tougher it is. Kids today are quicker, more athletic and it's takes more concentration to keep up with them.

 

Instead of criticizing the guys that are doing this, don't worry about taking the test, just come follow me around for a week during the season to see what I do. Get up at 4:00 AM to get to the gym by 5:00 AM at work by 7:00 work my 8 hours and leave somewhere around 4:00 PM from work to drive an hour or so to watch and help JV officials, to work a game where you may be a hotdog and water or you may get nothing. Only to get home at 11:00 and wash your uniform only to get up at 4:00 on Tuesday and do it all over again.

 

Did I mention not seeing my kids or my wife much during the week and the toll it takes on them for me to do do what I love? And I can hear some guy in the stands, "Call it both ways!" Can't help but get a little smirk on my face when I hear comments like that.

Edited March 13, 2015 by True blue (and gold)

[Mr. Athletics]

My hats off to anyone willing to put on the stripes. It has to be the hardest sport to officiate with today's athletes.

[jlow]

Just an observation over time, but I thought basketball officiating was better when they had 2-man crews.

[BirdBrain]

I OFFICIATE BECAUSE I LOVE THE GAME!

Did I mention not seeing my kids or my wife much during the week and the toll it takes on them for me to do do what I love? And I can hear some guy in the stands, "Call it both ways!" Can't help but get a little smirk on my face when I hear comments like that.

 

:thumb:

[Dozer61]

To play both sides of the coin the chant, Call it both ways from the fans may not always be accurate, however can be a legitimate complaint. This I believe boils down to 2 simple issues.

 

First, I return to my comment about 3 refs to watch 10 players....etc. The greatest ref crew can not see everything and will miss things simply because their is so much to keep watch on. There is no second chance to see what was missed. It is what it is.

 

Second, with 3 refs on the court perceptibly one managing each end of the court calls at one basket get a no call while under the other basket the same action gets called for the foul. Fan perception is biased but in reality I think it is simply 2different styles of calling a game. All things being equal (and I saw this first hand this year) it should balance out in the second half as the team that had a rough go in the first half has an easier go in the second half. Many would agree that though it balances out this for the players is a difficult game to play and for the refs this is a format that the fans will be most critical.

 

 

In general I as a fan, coach, parent and critic care, about 2 things. SAFETY and CONSISTENCY. If a game is going to be called tight fine. If a game is called loose that's fine also. Tight or loose though I want it at both ends and for the whole game. The players and coaches can adjust to the calls.

 

In regard to safety when players tangle over the ball I prefer the quick jump ball whistle over the foul call. Over the course of the game it will have no bearing on the outcome and prevents players from tangling legs and falling on each other. By contrast, foul calls can have a significant impact on the game and create untimely aggression resulting in player injury.

[Mr.Viking]

So in conclusion since you have talked to coaches, officials are always compensated. Since you have never talked to an official who was critiqued by a coach, HS or college, or and NBA official it never happens. Never heard of an offical losing a game, it never happens. And because you know officials in 3 different regions, they never "consume their own".

 

This is rock solid logic all the way around, not to mention circular in nature.

 

I am, and I believe Clyde as well, although I won't speak for him personally, fully qualified to comment...but I honestly thought anyone with a shred of objectivity could have picked that up from my prior post.

 

BTW: You wouldn't know if an official lost a game for kicking a rule, you're not entitled nor should you be entitled to privileged information.

 

No one will ever convince you of anything different than what you believe you know.....go with that, the world needs more sheep at the bottom of the cliff.

 

My logic is as solid as yours. I am speaking from what I know, not what I believe. I know officials haven't lost a game IN THE THREE REGIONS I FOLLOW because I asked. I didn't say any of those things NEVER happen, they just NEVER happen in THE THREE REGIONS I FOLLOW. Try to keep up. You , on the other hand, seem to think you have all the answers, and every official is a great one. You think there is nothing wrong with the process. Fair enough. I disagree.

[BirdBrain]

To play both sides of the coin the chant, Call it both ways from the fans may not always be accurate, however can be a legitimate complaint. This I believe boils down to 2 simple issues.

 

First, I return to my comment about 3 refs to watch 10 players....etc. The greatest ref crew can not see everything and will miss things simply because their is so much to keep watch on. There is no second chance to see what was missed. It is what it is.

 

Second, with 3 refs on the court perceptibly one managing each end of the court calls at one basket get a no call while under the other basket the same action gets called for the foul. Fan perception is biased but in reality I think it is simply 2different styles of calling a game. All things being equal (and I saw this first hand this year) it should balance out in the second half as the team that had a rough go in the first half has an easier go in the second half. Many would agree that though it balances out this for the players is a difficult game to play and for the refs this is a format that the fans will be most critical.

 

 

In general I as a fan, coach, parent and critic care, about 2 things. SAFETY and CONSISTENCY. If a game is going to be called tight fine. If a game is called loose that's fine also. Tight or loose though I want it at both ends and for the whole game. The players and coaches can adjust to the calls.

 

In regard to safety when players tangle over the ball I prefer the quick jump ball whistle over the foul call. Over the course of the game it will have no bearing on the outcome and prevents players from tangling legs and falling on each other. By contrast, foul calls can have a significant impact on the game and create untimely aggression resulting in player injury.

 

Well stated, agree