1. I can't visualize what you are talking about.

2. Drives me crazy. Saw it last night in a college game. Player caught the ball with feet on the floor. Two one step back then a second step back with the other foot to get behind the 3 pt line. Nothing called. Crazy.

3. I've never seen that happen without it being called a travel.

4. Jump stop is a misunderstood(by fans) and sometimes miscalled (by officials) rule.

 

I appreciate your thoughts, Clyde, let's discuss this further.

1-I see this frequently. Let's say I receive a pass and land with a one, two step - establishing my first foot down as my pivot. Then I immediately and smoothly change my pivot with no bounce. And then I pivot and/or make a move from that point, AFTER having changed my initial pivot. This is clearly a travel, but is frequently not called. This is great for street ball, AAU, and ESPN highlight reel stuff, but it gives the offensive player a huge and illegal advantage against a defender attempting to execute a proper close-out.

2-We're on the same page on this one.

3-Although you may not have seen it, it happens often. I can't count the times coaches have griped, preached, scolded their kids to do it correctly, only to be disadvantaged when an opponent who has not taught it so strictly, has players getting away with it because the crew calling the game has not stayed on top of it. It is happening with more and more frequency than in the past - as when hand-checking and arm-barring were coming into vogue. As viewers watch NBA highlight films, play of the day, etc. seeing the "stars" doing it, it becomes the new norm. I'm not Dr. Freud or Dr. Pavlov, but these become conditioned responses for viewers - players, coaches AND OFFICIALS who watch.

4-Yes, sometimes (many times) this is miscalled. After the two-foot jump stop occurs, then only one-and-a-half steps are legal, correct/ Sometimes more than 1 1/2 are granted. The jump stop MUST occur during the process of ending the dribble, WHILE THE DRIBBLER IS IN THE AIR, correct? But players are on the ground with ball in hand and THEN making a jump stop, and THEN taking their one-and-a-half steps.

 

My coaches taught good, fundamental defensive principles, those that have defenders with a good stance, in an established position - without NFL forearm shiver arm-bar impeding a dribbler. However, when the types of illegal advantages listed above are permitted, and then the offensive player "human torpedo dribbles" into a defender who's had virtually no chance of being stationary, I find it impossible to penalize the defender for not having a LGP, as the other rules are simply not being purely enforced. "Out of control dribblers" who zero in on defenders are not any different than dribblers who are guilty of shoving or elbowing defenders who are sliding and legally defending dribblers.:

into a defender who's had virtually no chance of being stationary, I find it impossible to penalize the defender for not having a LGP, :

 

Not the standard for LGP. Offensive speed should never be confused with defensive position. Referee the defense.

Everyone can come up with justification and rationalization, but the bottom line is: officiating is bad in all high school sports. I've been licensed in 3 sports and I can tell you that evaluations from coaches and assigners are not evaluations. They are "buddy" back scratching. Regarding the assigners, some of them have never played or officiated the sport they are assigning and yet they are evaluating others. The policy board that selects assigners is a political mess too.

 

Years ago, The state of Ohio raised dues, increased training requirements and put an actual accountability system in place. The result? They have more officials than they have ever had. I don't know all of the specifics, but you can't keep doing nothing, like we do in KY, and expect a different result.

 

And the answer to this issue is NOT: "go grab a whistle"

Not the standard for LGP. Offensive speed should never be confused with defensive position. Referee the defense.

 

The speed is not the issue, it is the space, the path, the intent.. Otherwise it is like calling a foul on a deer on the interstate for trying to get out of the way - not running into the path - of a semi truck. Sorry, but when a dribbler explodes into a moving defender who is with a gap between the two players, that is not a legitimate offensive move. Many of us know of examples when referees have made mention of things like "gain an advantage," or "had no impact on the play," etc. in which something other than the letter of the rules indicate, so picking and choosing when to be a stickler for the rules becomes very fuzzy and individually subjective.

They are "buddy" back scratching."

 

Bingo, we have a winner!

I'll answer making an assumption on what your posts said. Correct me if I am incorrect on your assumption.

 

Referees switch positions on every foul call.

3 refs - one on the baseline - one on same side as baseline ref out top - one on opposite side foul line extended.

 

Baseline ref (lead) calls a foul. Your posts seem to think that that same ref is still on the baseline. He's not. When he calls a foul he goes to the outside and the official on his side takes his spot under the basket. Next play the opposite side official calls a foul. He now goes over to the other side. Outside guy now goes to his old spot .

 

Your posts seem to indicate that Bill is underneath the entire first half and he will never be underneath during the 2nd half. If that's your thought that's incorrect. The switch rules/policy is there for that very reason. You don't want the same person making all the calls in an area for one half.

 

Thank you. I feel genuinely enlightened (no sarcasm intended). Of All the games I have watched I have never observed much referee rotation. Not to say it wasn't taking place just never observed it.

 

Which leads me to my next questions. And its not just me asking, but I'd like to hear your opinion. With such a rotation in place why is there such a strong perception of games being called differently at opposite ends of the court and the switch at halftime? 2nd, does this rotation take place only after fouls or each whistle? 3rd, is there a specific direction this rotation takes place (clockwise/counterclockwise) and does that direction ever change during the game?

Everyone can come up with justification and rationalization, but the bottom line is: officiating is bad in all high school sports. I've been licensed in 3 sports and I can tell you that evaluations from coaches and assigners are not evaluations. They are "buddy" back scratching. Regarding the assigners, some of them have never played or officiated the sport they are assigning and yet they are evaluating others. The policy board that selects assigners is a political mess too.

 

Years ago, The state of Ohio raised dues, increased training requirements and put an actual accountability system in place. The result? They have more officials than they have ever had. I don't know all of the specifics, but you can't keep doing nothing, like we do in KY, and expect a different result.

 

And the answer to this issue is NOT: "go grab a whistle"

 

What accountability system did Ohio put in place?

Thank you. I feel genuinely enlightened (no sarcasm intended). Of All the games I have watched I have never observed much referee rotation. Not to say it wasn't taking place just never observed it.

 

Which leads me to my next questions. And its not just me asking, but I'd like to hear your opinion. With such a rotation in place why is there such a strong perception of games being called differently at opposite ends of the court and the switch at halftime? 2nd, does this rotation take place only after fouls or each whistle? 3rd, is there a specific direction this rotation takes place (clockwise/counterclockwise) and does that direction ever change during the game?

 

Rotations only happen on fouls. Calling official goes to the outside spot table side. Official in that spot goes to the spot the calling official was in. That rotation never changes. Exception would be on a foul in transition. No switch if it's in the backcourt.

 

I can't speak to the perception that the 2nd half "evens up." I will admit I've heard some (few ) officials say at halftime "we need to get some fouls on Team A...." in order to even it up a bit. Not good IMO.

Rotations only happen on fouls. Calling official goes to the outside spot table side. Official in that spot goes to the spot the calling official was in. That rotation never changes. Exception would be on a foul in transition. No switch if it's in the backcourt.

 

I can't speak to the perception that the 2nd half "evens up." I will admit I've heard some (few ) officials say at halftime "we need to get some fouls on Team A...." in order to even it up a bit. Not good IMO.

 

I noticed less rotation this year than in the past. Basically refs were getting in eye contact of table & calling the foul. I thought it was being a POE to speed up the games as some refs tend to take their time getting to the table.

I noticed less rotation this year than in the past. Basically refs were getting in eye contact of table & calling the foul. I thought it was being a POE to speed up the games as some refs tend to take their time getting to the table.

 

That's surprising. The switch is there for a reason.

That's surprising. The switch is there for a reason.

 

I agree. Was just very noticeable. 9th & 10th are games I saw this year

Why are regions officiated differently?

Why are regions officiated differently?

 

I don't think you can limit it to regions. Watch how differently college games are called. Very inconsistent across the board in my opinion

What accountability system did Ohio put in place?

 

I don't know the specifics. There was an article in Referee Magazine about Ohio officials some time back, and it mentioned an accountability system. I also have an in-law that officiates in Ohio, and he said that there is a system in place but we never got into it. When we see each other at a family function once every 2-3 years, we usually talk about how great of an official we are! Sorry

Everyone can come up with justification and rationalization, but the bottom line is: officiating is bad in all high school sports. I've been licensed in 3 sports and I can tell you that evaluations from coaches and assigners are not evaluations. They are "buddy" back scratching. Regarding the assigners, some of them have never played or officiated the sport they are assigning and yet they are evaluating others. The policy board that selects assigners is a political mess too.

 

Years ago, The state of Ohio raised dues, increased training requirements and put an actual accountability system in place. The result? They have more officials than they have ever had. I don't know all of the specifics, but you can't keep doing nothing, like we do in KY, and expect a different result.

 

And the answer to this issue is NOT: "go grab a whistle"

 

Birdbrain vehemently disagrees!! :wideyed: