HICKORY is fishing in the wrong pond. Let's be mindful of rule #4 in this thread since it's evident that's the path some are trying to head down. We have a forum for controversial issues already. Let's take that stuff there folks if you feel the need to discuss it. In this forum, we are gonna stick to the game and the stuff surrounding the game under the heading of this thread.

The game has changed. It's not the Princeton offense anymore and there's not a new version of Hoosiers out there. The game underneath is physical. Strength is equally, if not more, important than skill underneath. I understand that basketball purists don't like that. However, the game is ever changing to resemble the college game.

 

As for the commish, my guess is that the bottom line will look good, so the play must have looked good.

 

And the college game has been lambasted for being terrible this year. It's either a 3 or a shot in the paint. This is not enjoyable to watch. It is like watching the late 90's Heat and Knicks, w/out the talented centers and AI as the PG.

And in reference to mcraycraft's post, knowing his allegiance, I mentioned it in the game thread but will do it again, I thought Prewitt handled the physical play way better than Willis did a year ago. As a matter of fact, he handed out some very physical play of his own. I left very impressed with him and even more convinced he's more than prepared for the next level and style of play there.

 

An interesting article and interesting views.

 

You have to look at what driving the tendency toward more 'physical' play. IMHO its a factor of giving the offense more leeway in terms of dribbling and fending off with the off hand. It used to be that palming or carrying was called when the offense would let their dribble get too high and allow the offense more easily get a step on the defense. Couple that with protecting the ball with the off-hand and now the offense has advantages that used to not be there. It seems to counter that officials let the defense be more aggressive with contact. The results is a lot more 'banging' on the floor.

 

Not sure there is 'an answer' but the style for both offense and defense has evolved/devolved into a more physical game. It mimics the style of the college game that mimics the style of the pro game. Unless you are going to role back what is allowed by the offense its hard to see a roll back of the 'physical defense'.

As I posted in another thread this morning, my only complaint is use of hands. Any player can be a solid defender if he/she is allowed to use hands to control the offensive player. I am all for physical play if the defender plays defense the right way - use your feet, get in position. I think officials let way too much hand combat occur - that is true in high school and college IMO.

Hand Checking is one of the big problems out front and as an official you should use the "R.I.D."method.

If a player Redirects, Impedes, Or causes Displacement of a player it IS a Foul period and should be called but in many cases is not.

I don't like seeing defensive players getting away with controlling the offensive player with their hands. On the other side. I am tired of seeing wild drives to the basket, jumping into the defender, flailing around and throwing the ball up, and shooting free throws because of it. If the defender does not create the contact, it should not be a foul on the defender IMO. This is every bit as annoying to me as the flopping on charges.

I don't like seeing defensive players getting away with controlling the offensive player with their hands. On the other side. I am tired of seeing wild drives to the basket, jumping into the defender, flailing around and throwing the ball up, and shooting free throws because of it. If the defender does not create the contact, it should not be a foul on the defender IMO. This is every bit as annoying to me as the flopping on charges.

 

Depends on how you define "creating the contact."

 

If a defender is standing still and his two arms are up but not straight up and the shooter jumps into those arms should it be a foul?

What I hate is when the refs do call the ticky tack hand check up top where the kid on d does nothing to "hinder" play or the offensive man, then won't blow the whistle when the guard drives to the basket or the big man gets it and is hit/slapped/pushed mutliple times and nothing is called. I don't mind physical, tough play, but the shooter is supposed to be protected when he goes up to shoot and too many times under the basket I see kids getting pummeled and no call.

I sure all the purists and old schoolers that want to get up in arms about how permissive refs are in letting defensive players play then surely in the interest of consistency you would also want to see them clean up other things, correct? A HUGE pet peeve of mine is a player that hangs on the rim after dunking. IMVHO many more of those need to be called. I also have a problem with taunting. When a player makes a point of going in front of an opponents bench to "celebrate" after making a big play or hitting a big shot they need to draw a T. Same goes for any audible profanity. Nothing looks more low brow ro me then a player that screws up and pops off with a colorful metaphor loudly enough that they are heard.

I thought that this was an ugly basketball tournament. Close games, but not great basketball. It seems like teams basically spread the floor and do the dribble drive. That's fine, but it leads to a ton of contact on drives. The last five minutes of MC vs. Hopkinsville had 2 field goals. The rest were free throws from guys driving to the basket looking for something to be called on the shot. To me, that's ugly. Ball movement was non-existent. Great individual players, probably some of the best overall at the tournament for years, but not any great teams.

 

I couldn't agree more. This is a post I made on the Ballard-Montgomery County thread. I'm glad that I'm not the only one who feels this way:

 

OK, I'll say it.

 

While the scoreboard says these are great games, the quality of play displayed is abysmal. Before anyone says the officiating was lousy in either of the semi-finals, the games are unofficiatable. Run, gun, put your head down, crash into somebody, knock each other down going for rebounds. Shoot the 3 at first opportunity, reach in, attack the rebounder, push ball-handlers, and on and on and on.

 

I respect the athleticism. Some of it is awesome! BUT, is it ALL about athleticism??? I guess so.

 

There have to be others besides myself who think that this is a really BAD product.

 

105 shots taken between the two teams tonight. 16 offensive rebounds for Ballard, 6 for MoCo in the fourth quarter. Source - My memory and the Kentucky Broadcast Network. How many free-throws shot in this one???

 

I guess this is what it takes to get to the finals. For me, No Thanks!!!

I love the game. I love the product. I enjoyed 3 great games beginning Saturday evening and don't have one single complaint about any of it except that it's over.

I remember the Pistons-Knicks 68-63 games of a few years back. Seems like the Association managed to get away from that style of play. Can the same be done at other levels, or is it a given that HS and college ball will continue down that path?

An interesting article and interesting views.

 

You have to look at what driving the tendency toward more 'physical' play. IMHO its a factor of giving the offense more leeway in terms of dribbling and fending off with the off hand. It used to be that palming or carrying was called when the offense would let their dribble get too high and allow the offense more easily get a step on the defense. Couple that with protecting the ball with the off-hand and now the offense has advantages that used to not be there. It seems to counter that officials let the defense be more aggressive with contact. The results is a lot more 'banging' on the floor.

 

Not sure there is 'an answer' but the style for both offense and defense has evolved/devolved into a more physical game. It mimics the style of the college game that mimics the style of the pro game. Unless you are going to role back what is allowed by the offense its hard to see a roll back of the 'physical defense'.

 

I think you are right on the money: once one aspect of the game incorporates more physicality, then it's hard for a coach or a player to stand on principle and get run over by opponents. It's a lot like nuclear warfare, isn't it? Even while nations lament the global expansion of weaponry, nobody's going to be the first to give up the edge.

 

Beyond the obvious possibility that more kids are going to get injured, my underlying concern with this trend is that basketball might soon experience the PED scourge that plagues other sports, including some at the high school level. Once you want that edge....

I think you are right on the money: once one aspect of the game incorporates more physicality, then it's hard for a coach or a player to stand on principle and get run over by opponents. It's a lot like nuclear warfare, isn't it? Even while nations lament the global expansion of weaponry, nobody's going to be the first to give up the edge.

 

Beyond the obvious possibility that more kids are going to get injured, my underlying concern with this trend is that basketball might soon experience the PED scourge that plagues other sports, including some at the high school level. Once you want that edge....

 

I just realized that my last statement could be perceived as falling under the "controversial issues" rule. If so, I apologize and pledge to be more careful in the future.

The game has and continues to evolve. Some changes for the better some not. I'm an old timer. I remember when it was illegal to dunk at any level other then pro. There were purists the that insisted that allowing dunking would ruin the game and some even argued that by definition it was an offensive goal tend. While I don't particularly like hoe lax officials have become about calling hanging on the rim I think that allowing dunking has been good for the game. I also remember Dean Smith basketball before the shot clock. There were several coaches that embraced the delay game he was just the most prominent. Does anyone doubt that had the college game not evolved and adopted the shot clock the game itself may have been irreparably damaged? There were people that were adamantly against the 3 point shot. The point of all this rambling is that the game heals itself. If the type of play that is being derided in this thread becomes a real determent to the game then I have no doubt the powers that be will make changes necessary to correct it. All that said the last thing I want to see is a game where whistles are blown every 10 seconds.