After thinking long and hard about this, I came to focus on a few main points.

 

1.) First and foremost...nothing, and I repeat, nothing...death penalty included...is going to change the past. Whatever the punishment may or may not be, it will not change what happened to the victims.

 

2.) It appears that the people responsible for not only the horrible actions, but also for the coverup...have already been removed, and are no longer a part of the football program and/or the university. So, you are unable to punish them through the university. If there is anybody still there and the university refuses to remove them...then this is a different story.

 

3.) I would imagine revenue from the football program at Penn State...probably like most of your big D-1 schools...helps provide the funding for a lot of the other sports. Eliminating the football program will certainly hurt more than just football players. Kids who get scholarships for swimming, lacrosse, volleyball, tennis, etc. may suddenly be faced with the reality of having to pay for college. And yes, they may be able to get a similar scholarship elsewhere...but, what happens to the player they displaced at the other school? Where do they go now?

 

4.) Penn State has 24 campuses and nearly 100,000 students enrolled (according to Wikipedia). The football program may have what, 100 of them? Many students go there for a reason other than football. They are considered a fine research university. So, for those that advocate closing the whole place down or having students refuse to go there...I would hate to miss out on an opportunity to find a cure for cancer or an alternative energy source, because of this.

 

So, in the end, I believe that I agree with CWB...the death penalty punishes the wrong people. Put them on probation...reduce the number of new scholarships for the next few years...ban them from postseason bowl games...even remove their wins for the past 15 or so years if you want...have them pay a fine (that goes to the victims and their families). But, let the kids who DID NOTHING WRONG...play football.

Good column by Rick Reilly

 

Rick Reilly: Joe Paterno's True Legacy - ESPN

 

What a fool I was.

 

In 1986, I spent a week in State College, Pa., researching a 10-page Sports Illustrated Sportsman of the Year piece on Joe Paterno.

 

It was supposed to be a secret, but one night the phone in my hotel room rang. It was a Penn State professor, calling out of the blue.

 

"Are you here to take part in hagiography?" he said.

 

"What's hagiography?" I asked.

 

"The study of saints," he said. "You're going to be just like the rest, aren't you? You're going to make Paterno out to be a saint. You don't know him. He'll do anything to win. What you media are doing is dangerous."

 

Jealous egghead, I figured.

 

What an idiot I was.

^ Thanks for linking. :thumb: The following excerpt sums my feelings up:

 

The worst scandal in college football history deserves the worst penalty the NCAA can give. They gave it to SMU for winning without regard for morals. They should give it to Penn State for the same thing. The only difference is, at Penn State they didn't pay for it with Corvettes. They paid for it with lives.

The NCAA has no jurisdiction in this matter. It's an issue that will be addressed by the legal system.

 

0 NCAA rules broken = 0 NCAA penalties. Let the law handle throwing Curley, and Spanier in jail. Sandusky will be under the jail. Done.

 

 

I believe these two are on target. If Penn State did not break any NCAA rules, then the NCAA has no jurisdiction. With no rules being broken, lack of institutional control is never considered. There has to be an NCAA rules violation first.

 

Further, as to lack of institutional control, in a sense there was control. The institution's leaders were aware of the allegations against Sandusky. They did make decisions on how to handle the matter. They were the wrong decisions but they were the institution's leaders decisions.

 

The ironic thing for me is this. If Paterno had been told that one of his coaches gave a player money, I have little doubt that Paterno would have immediately reported that, that he would have fired the coach, and that the leaders of Penn State would have done all the right things in reporting the violation to the NCAA. When I consider that, it tells me even more that this is not a NCAA football matter, it is a Penn State leadership and institution matter.

 

I am going to stick with my original post. This is not a football matter nor an NCAA matter and for those reasons the death penalty is not the appropriate punishment.

 

So the question for me is this - Is punishment of the leaders at Penn State who made these decisions enough or does the institution of Penn State need to be punished as well? Did the Freeh report comment on institutional problems or impropriety beyond the leaders who are now gone?

Probably the most revealing story about Paterno. Sickening.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/14/sports/ncaafootball/joe-paterno-got-richer-contract-amid-jerry-sandusky-inquiry.html?pagewanted=all

I have thought of a similar situation that I can't believe I didn't think of sooner - the Catholic church. We have a highly respected and trusted institution whose leaders hid sexual abuse. So what has happened to the church? Not to the individual priests; not to the leaders who knew of the abuse and tried to handle it themselves. What has happened to the church? I know it is the separation of church and state but that doesn't apply when crimes have been committed. Should the Vatican have closed certain churches (i.e. the death penalty)?

I have thought of a similar situation that I can't believe I didn't think of sooner - the Catholic church. We have a highly respected and trusted institution whose leaders hid sexual abuse. So what has happened to the church? Not to the individual priests; not to the leaders who knew of the abuse and tried to handle it themselves. What has happened to the church? I know it is the separation of church and state but that doesn't apply when crimes have been committed. Should the Vatican have closed certain churches (i.e. the death penalty)?

 

Was their an obvious cover up by the Vatican? Either way, they should have exiled anyone involved and moved on. If not then yes, they should've been shut down.

 

After reading some more of what went on, they should evacuate Happy Valley of anyone that didn't have anything to do with the scandal and nuke the place. Sickening.

Probably the most revealing story about Paterno. Sickening.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/14/sports/ncaafootball/joe-paterno-got-richer-contract-amid-jerry-sandusky-inquiry.html?pagewanted=all

 

It's a glaring example that what is on the surface, is not always what is underneath.

As repulsive and unforgivable as the actions have been at Penn State over the last decade, the Death Penalty isn't the right penalty... They gained no "competitive advantage," therefore I don't feel as if it's the right sentence. I do however think that any players that would like to transfer away from the program should be allowed to do so, and play immediately. Just my two cents.

Probably the most revealing story about Paterno. Sickening.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/14/sports/ncaafootball/joe-paterno-got-richer-contract-amid-jerry-sandusky-inquiry.html?pagewanted=all

 

It's a glaring example that what is on the surface, is not always what is underneath.

Was their an obvious cover up by the Vatican? Either way, they should have exiled anyone involved and moved on. If not then yes, they should've been shut down.

 

After reading some more of what went on, they should evacuate Happy Valley of anyone that didn't have anything to do with the scandal and nuke the place. Sickening.

 

I am not sure about the Vatican but much of the leadership in the American church knew of the abuse. So take it to the Diocese level. If a Bishop knew of abuse and did not report it, should that Diocese be given the death penalty?

I have thought of a similar situation that I can't believe I didn't think of sooner - the Catholic church. We have a highly respected and trusted institution whose leaders hid sexual abuse. So what has happened to the church? Not to the individual priests; not to the leaders who knew of the abuse and tried to handle it themselves. What has happened to the church? I know it is the separation of church and state but that doesn't apply when crimes have been committed. Should the Vatican have closed certain churches (i.e. the death penalty)?

 

Voice of Reason: I usually think you are pretty close to spot on, but not with this analogy. The NCAA by definition is a voluntary organization that institutions join in order to compete in intercollegiate athletics. The organization organizes and rules over the member schools.

 

The Catholic Church is the Catholic Church. The individual diocese did not elect to join an organizing body. The church is one (or at least it tries to be) from the highest level to the lowest level.

 

The difference in the two entities organization and purpose totally breaks down the analogy. Other than being two organizations that both had pedofile issues, they share little else in common.

 

The argument over the death penalty comes down to 2 questions IMO:

 

- How broadly does the NCAA want to define "institutional control"

- Do you believe that the cover up was largely to protect the Penn State football brand.

 

For the record. I don't think the fact that innocent people (including current players) matters, because whenever the NCAA punishes an organization there are people who no fault of their own are impacted. That is not a valid reason for the NCAA to withhold a penalty.

 

The reason I have read for Penn State not getting the death penalty is that the school was not a repeat offender.

No but if they haven't already they should clean house.

Would you send your son to a school that just had a pedophile as the #2 man in charge of the program you're admtting him to? By NOT disclosing what he knew, and the admininistration also coving it up, Penn State indeed DID have a competitive advantage. I'm sure the recruits PSU have/had also have other options as good as or better. IF given all the facts, school choices may have been altered. My kid wouldn't have gon there (...to play FB!)

Voice of Reason: I usually think you are pretty close to spot on, but not with this analogy. The NCAA by definition is a voluntary organization that institutions join in order to compete in intercollegiate athletics. The organization organizes and rules over the member schools.

 

The Catholic Church is the Catholic Church. The individual diocese did not elect to join an organizing body. The church is one (or at least it tries to be) from the highest level to the lowest level.

 

The difference in the two entities organization and purpose totally breaks down the analogy. Other than being two organizations that both had pedofile issues, they share little else in common.

 

The argument over the death penalty comes down to 2 questions IMO:

 

- How broadly does the NCAA want to define "institutional control"

- Do you believe that the cover up was largely to protect the Penn State football brand.

 

For the record. I don't think the fact that innocent people (including current players) matters, because whenever the NCAA punishes an organization there are people who no fault of their own are impacted. That is not a valid reason for the NCAA to withhold a penalty.

 

The reason I have read for Penn State not getting the death penalty is that the school was not a repeat offender.

 

Here is the big difference in how I look at this and it goes to the heart of my analogy. The Sandusky situation has nothing to do with the NCAA. The NCAA governs athletics and their rules are about keeping an even playing field. Nothing Sandusky did gave Penn State an advantage in football or broke any NCAA rules. It didn't help bring in recruits. This isn't an NCAA football issue so the NCAA has no say in anything in this case.

 

The Sandusky crimes are a Penn State institutional issue. Who governs Penn State and who has authority to penalize them for the conduct of their leaders? That is where punishment for the actions of the leaders of the institution need to come from. If it is the civil courts, like what has happened with the Catholic Church, then that is the way it is.