Class system and public separated from private

[LSURock]

I agree that stats can show your warts or your beauty marks, whichever you want to show.

 

Over the past few months and listening to all the debate, I quickly dismiss the hard work argument as ridiculous in 99% of the cases. Having been a coach in several different sports in a rural county, I know going into it, I have severe disadvantages against any city/private/independent school I face.

 

I am not sure that the split should be by size or private/public or by the type of school. Our school is in Lex Catholics class size. We will NEVER compete on a year in and year out basis with them. Once every 10-15 years, we can have an outstanding class and have a good 1-3 year run and compete with them but yearly, not going to happen.

 

In another thread, someone pointed out 10 public schools that have success. Only 2 of those are county schools. 116 other county schools (eliminated Jefferson and Fayette) don't. That seems awful high percentage.

 

I would have to question your comments about LC being your roadblock to success. The fact is that LC doesn't enjoy all that much success themselves. I don't know what sport you are talking about but I can't think of one that LC dominates. So I must conclude that if the LC obstacle were removed your team would more than likely get eliminated by some team other than LC anyway. So, I'm asking is your beef that you just want to get a step or two closer? I realize I don't have all the facts but maybe you could fill in the blanks.

[Dlbdonn]

I did this research and posted in another thread. I have copied it over to here.

 

Did some research from the KHSAA website. These are fairly accurate but some schools I did not count either way because I was not 100% sure of their classifications. Apollo, Iroquois, Fort Campbell, I thought were public schools.

 

A 46 publics, 1 state finalists, 2%. 5 privates 1 state finalists, 20%

AA 48 publics, 1 state finalists, 2%. 3 privates 1 state finalists, 33%

AAA 51 publics, 1 state finalists, 1.9%. 2 privates 1 state finalists, 50%

AAAA 51 publics, 0 state finalists, 0% 2 privates 2 state finalists, 100%

 

Approximately 200 public schools compete in football and they fielded 3 state finalists for 1.5%.

By my count, there are 12 private schools that fielded football teams and they have 5 finalists for 41.7%.

(My count had A Holy Cross(Cov), Kentucky Country Day, Holy Cross(L), Newport Catholic and Lex Christian; AA Owensboro Catholic, CAL, DeSales; AAA Cov Cath and Lex Cath; AAAA St. X and Trinity. Please point out any schools I missed and I will correct my figures.)

"There are three kinds of lies: lies , damned lies, and statistics." Benjamin Disraeli attributed to him by Mark Twain

[Dlbdonn]

"Statistics are like alienists( psychiatrists)-They will testify for either side" LaGuardia

[EQUUS GREVYI]

LBBC, what if they made a split removing the rural public schools only and left the rest of the state alone? It sounds as if all the schools have an advantage over the rural public schools.

[Oldtimer Sandlot]

I have read these hotly debated statements for quite some time now. There are several that are very well thought out, very well put. There are also a lot that are knee-jerk reaction statements that cause individuals to "flame up" and respond. I have been a coach in three sports and have been in state tournament play in two of them. I have coached a "longtime" and I will leave that there. I can see the hurt and resentment from the private schools. I can see the point of the public schools. There are logical, real debatable items from both sides. I do think the KHSAA was wrong to back away initially from the strong statement that was made by the schools that was demonstrated by the vote count. This simply says there is a real perceived problem and "we need to talk". To brush off the large vote margin allows a wound to fester until it just gets worse. Both sides need to be calm, collect thoughts, listen with real ears, and be prepared for compromise and not "Total Victory" for either side. Our whole being as Americans is built on our ability to compromise and come away with great results. I don't want to write a book here so I will finish with some things may not stay the same. Just because it has been done a certain way for a long time should not be in the debate. If it is then there will never be a solution that all can enjoy, there will be a lingering bitterness afterwards. I do think that we have evolved in our sports that is time to consider how [ not if ] we can impliment changes that give opportunities for others, not seek fairness, that is an elusive thing that implies to make some fight with one arm tied or a leg. That will not work.

[rockmom]

I have read these hotly debated statements for quite some time now. There are several that are very well thought out, very well put. There are also a lot that are knee-jerk reaction statements that cause individuals to "flame up" and respond. I have been a coach in three sports and have been in state tournament play in two of them. I have coached a "longtime" and I will leave that there. I can see the hurt and resentment from the private schools. I can see the point of the public schools. There are logical, real debatable items from both sides. I do think the KHSAA was wrong to back away initially from the strong statement that was made by the schools that was demonstrated by the vote count. This simply says there is a real perceived problem and "we need to talk". To brush off the large vote margin allows a wound to fester until it just gets worse. Both sides need to be calm, collect thoughts, listen with real ears, and be prepared for compromise and not "Total Victory" for either side. Our whole being as Americans is built on our ability to compromise and come away with great results. I don't want to write a book here so I will finish with some things may not stay the same. Just because it has been done a certain way for a long time should not be in the debate. If it is then there will never be a solution that all can enjoy, there will be a lingering bitterness afterwards. I do think that we have evolved in our sports that is time to consider how [ not if ] we can impliment changes that give opportunities for others, not seek fairness, that is an elusive thing that implies to make some fight with one arm tied or a leg. That will not work.

 

Well put, Oldtimer Sandlot!

 

Welcome to the site, BTW! :dancingpa

[Oldtimer Sandlot]

Thanks for the kind welcome, very appreciated.

[rock86]

If football is the main problem, then let's return to separating Jefferson County from the rest of the state as was done from 1959 to 1974. Throw in Fayette County and you have a AAAAA class with 20 or so teams. Throw in some of Northern Ky as well by enrollment and that would be a a minimum of 24 teams, or go to 28 with everyone making the playoffs. That leaves 47 teams per division for the other four levels. Make CovCath, LexCath and Highlands (they draw from a wide area...accepting students far and wide) also play in the Super division in this sport only.

 

There is one area that is totally unfair. Basketball is stacked against Jefferson County. If everything is to be based on population, then Jefferson County should have 4 or 6 representatives, not only two. By the way, Trinity and St. X are both hovering around .500 in basketball.

 

Girls basketball is unlike Boy's basketball. Again, separate the rural from the large population area teams. Of course this destroys the Sweet Sixteen. So, at what price do you all want to go for the so called level playing field?

 

Any complaints about wrestling, baseball, tennis, soccer, swimming, golf and volleyball should be solved by adding classes as most states do. Trinity has never won a baseball crown. X has won twice in the past 40 years or so.

 

Track and Cross Country have classes and apparently the complaints are not coming from these areas.

 

Every sport has different teams that excel. Urban areas tend to have more success than rural, especially when all the teams are lumped together. Ask for more classes in more sports or cherry pick the sports with the most publicity? Destroy the tradition of the Sweet Sixteen or not?

[leatherneck]

If football is the main problem, then let's return to separating Jefferson County from the rest of the state as was done from 1959 to 1974. Throw in Fayette County and you have a AAAAA class with 20 or so teams. Throw in some of Northern Ky as well by enrollment and that would be a a minimum of 24 teams, or go to 28 with everyone making the playoffs. That leaves 47 teams per division for the other four levels. Make CovCath, LexCath and Highlands (they draw from a wide area...accepting students far and wide) also play in the Super division in this sport only.

 

There is one area that is totally unfair. Basketball is stacked against Jefferson County. If everything is to be based on population, then Jefferson County should have 4 or 6 representatives, not only two. By the way, Trinity and St. X are both hovering around .500 in basketball.

 

Girls basketball is unlike Boy's basketball. Again, separate the rural from the large population area teams. Of course this destroys the Sweet Sixteen. So, at what price do you all want to go for the so called level playing field?

 

Any complaints about wrestling, baseball, tennis, soccer, swimming, golf and volleyball should be solved by adding classes as most states do. Trinity has never won a baseball crown. X has won twice in the past 40 years or so.

 

Track and Cross Country have classes and apparently the complaints are not coming from these areas.

 

Every sport has different teams that excel. Urban areas tend to have more success than rural, especially when all the teams are lumped together. Ask for more classes in more sports or cherry pick the sports with the most publicity? Destroy the tradition of the Sweet Sixteen or not?

 

rock86, you have a misconception about Highlands and I understand why. Other than 04 (which was an aberration caused more, in my opinion, with some things at CovCath than anything we did at Highlands), Highlands generally doesn't have this slew of kids from outside the city playing on the team. I know people think otherwise but they are wrong. This past year (05), other than Jordan Bridgett, I can't think of anyone not living in the city. Next year, I honestly can't think of a kid who will be a starter that is not a resident of Ft. Thomas. Most of them grew up in the city. We've had a couple of good ones from outside the city in the past play for us, and admittedly they've been some high profile ones, but if you really looked at the numbers closely over the years, it's not this large number of kids on any one team. Most years, we've probably had less out of district players than CovCath has had players residing in Boone County (which for the record I have no problem with). Heck, I think a kid should be able to go to any blasted school he wants to. LN

[Oldtimer Sandlot]

I agree with the last statement of the paragraph. This stood out. A long time ago I did not feel this way. But as time has gone by and many external things have changed along with young people, I have changed. We say we want more opportunities for our athletes. We state that those opportunities need to be expanded. Yet, we argue over "school boundaries" and fight over what school a young person is going to attend. Even our state's governing body over athletics contradicts this very statement. If an athlete decides to go to another school, he / she is ruled ineligible to compete immediately. They then have to go through every kind of hassle to show why they should be allowed to compete. This is expanding opportunities? We all realize there must be regulations to ensure fair play. However, to keep an athlete in a place they would rather not be cannot be productive. If a player wants to go elsewhere, let them go and be happy and play. The real argument, problem, is the perception-reality of large, student population schools competing against schools that have less. I cannot see any basis another school has if it is a 1600-2000 student school vs. another of the same. School situations have changed so drastically with population shifts that the time has come for class play in all sports. I know that is heresy [ Catholics will understand that better than protestants ] to a lot of so-called basketball purists. Why is it always the basketball purists that run screaming at the word class and none of the other sports? Dividing play into classes for all sports is the only real solution that will work. You people know it, I have come to realize it. We can "Task-Force" the issue for years and there is no other solution that will fit. Any other conclusion is only a band-aid over the wound. The real roadblocks to athletic progress are the individuals who proclaim that the reason not to change is they have seen every state basketball tournament for the last 50 years and it will kill the tradition. Well, it is time to create new tradition and build on the old. Carving boundaries and miles of radius for attendence is ridiculous and makes intelligent people look foolish. Divide all sports into classes and you have "graded" the field. Then apply the playing rules and you have " leveled" the field.