Oldtimer Sandlot

BullDog has it. It is time to put baseball into classes. The "purists" yowled and scowled when MLB went to their playoff format. Now you will never see them go back to the old. They know that is has been very successful. I think no more than three classes would cover baseball. That will be the only way to generate a "new generation" of interest in smaller schools and the athletes. The smaller schools cannot get a vision of competing and winning and going to a major play-off level. Please don't bombard us with certain small school success. Those schools are in a geographic area that compasses a large population even though their enrollment is small. That makes a huge difference in the caliber of their athletes.

Do remember Don Richardson's Madison Central team in 82 or 83 that was 40-0 and crowned National Champions.

There are things players are encouraged to say over and over as an intimidation tactic against the other team. You fans,players,coaches, and umpires that have been there know what I mean. There is no room for that crap in this game. That is how hostile feelings begin with programs. It is an uppity obnoxious tactic. It is a DIRECT REFLECTION of the coaching staff.

I think it is GREAT! No criticism here. I think your programs ought to be as first class as is affordable. The days of showering from a pipe next to the coal bin after practice are over and gone. If coaches and schools are going to ask/demand that their players bust their hull for them, then this is a good reward to come to and take pride in that they are a part of this program.

I'll bet those schools that win their class in football whine and cry and feel terrible that they are "just champs in one division". They probably want to dump that old class trophy in the garbage because there are 3 other state champs along with them. Ask any player from schools that field 16-20 players total for their whole program, as opposed to schools that have 20 players in each level-freshmen, JV, Varsity- 60 total, if they would not want to compete on a class level they will say YES! they do. Kids want to play where they can compete. Baseball people need to come out of hibernation. Why do you think football people are constantly tinkering with their game? Afew years ago polls and numbers of attendance showed football was losing it's popularity. Football set about and changed the play-off format. They included more teams that could be eligible to get in the play-offs. Instant results-the interest level shot back up. Now they have breathed more excitement into their game. Baeball needs to understand that 6 classes in baseball would be the biggest shot in the arm in 20 years. Look past the "I-like-it-the-way-it-is" and see the upsurge of kids that would want to play on the high school team again. The championship would be possible, instead os some far-off intangible "we will never-be-there" idea. I see the football action as an opportunity for baseball to move forward.

Well, just one more thought from me on this one. I don't mind being incorrect from time-to-time, and some good points have been made and I agree with them. I know,here comes the but, but "the time of pitch" does refer to the beginning of the motion towards homeplate; I agree, however, if that ball is not released as part of that motion it becomes a balk. If it is dropped or thrown to the ground it must cross the foul line somewhere between home and first or home and third to become a ball otherwise it is a balk. If you watch as you suggested[ a good suggestion] the cat cher on an intentional walk you will see him stay until the release. I really felt the umpire did his best on this call under the conditions[ though I never saw the play with my eyes] I think all you guys gave a good description from different angles.

Gentlemen, the "release" of the ball is what creates and defines the "pitch". Balks can be created and occur before the "release" or pitch. In this case the rule states that the catcher must hold his position in the catcher's box until the ball is "pitched". [ or released ] My paraphrasing to make clear, not the official wording. That box is specific in width and if the catcher is far to the right or left of the umpire it is obvious that he cannot be in the box at that point.

Man-alive!!!!! These are not BASKETBALL GAMES!!!!!!! This is FUN-BASEBALL! Everything that is done at the State Tournament Final Eight should be the highest level of fun and excitement. If you are people that want to get in and get out you are at the wrong game, time, and place. I would have to seriously question if you are "there-all-the-time" fans or the "every-now-and-again" fans. No way would I want to compete for attention with a hilarious ice-cream eating contest. Heck, I would have been watching it too and I have coached in basketball and baseball state tournaments. Some people even think they shoot too many fire-works off at a 4th of July celebration-HELLLOWWW!! We are a different breed in pure baseball and the AVERAGE fan just does not get it. The coaches should follow the guidlines given them and have the players prepared. If any players had "that-look" on their face then someone ignored what they were obviously told. Long-live all the GREAT SHANNANAGINS!!! [ hope I got that spelling right ].

FEDUMP is right on the line. Good explanation. Just remember, there are no terms in any OFFICIAL BASEBALL rulebook concerning a "fielder's balk" or "catcher's balk". The illegal actions of a fielder other than the pitcher can result in the "pitcher's pitch" being ruled a balk. I think using those terms is creating the confusion for most fans. The actions by the catcher in this case should have been recognized as an "illegal action" and caused the "pitch" to be ruled a balk. I just have to question how a home-plate umpire can miss the catcher in front of him leaving his box that early. An object that size suddenly is up and moving out of your in-front vision and the pitcher has not released the ball for the pitch? Maybe the play was a lot closer and not so obvious on the leave-time. That could account for the umpire not making that call.

TIGERDUDE 13, you had a very good response and explanation and I agree with everything but one. I think you just got carried away on the steps thing. If that was true,then an outfielder could catch the ball for the third out,continue to run towards the infield and suddenly in the infield drop the ball and the runner be safe. I don't think that was your intention. The rulebook specifies that if the fielder clearly has control of the catch-and that is the key-then the subsequent action of dropping the ball will not affect the out. If,however,the fielder makes the catch and continues in a stumbling steps not under control and drops the ball or in hitting the ground drops the ball, the runner can be declared safe. That is straight out of the case book and also included in the published "Approved Rulings" by the NFHS. I agree with you there are many misconceptions on rules. But it is not entirely others fault. The NFHS continues to review and clarify rulings and intents of rules, coaches,umpires and fans do not always read these updates and continue with the previous knowledge.

Congratulations to Kevin and great wishes for happy seasons to come. Congrats to Coach Cornett for signing another quality local player. This is for Mike, [ DAD], did you think you would have 2 sons to play college ball when you decided to play baseball so long ago?? Again, congrats to all of you.

Wasn't that simply a posted score?? The only comment was "Final". It didn't look like any level of play was indicated either way. It seems interesting that other lopsided scores that are posted never draw this sarcasm. Maybe Jenkins young team played well and the game just got away from them. Happens to all teams at one time or another. I would say, keep working to Jenkins players and to Knott players, just play and pay no attention to that stuff.

I did not say those things in a mean spirit. I sincerely mean it for young people to stop, take a look at how you spend the "extra time" outside of your activities. This is where most time is killed and can never be resurrected. Do not be sold on the idea you can sell your teamates out by neglecting season preparation on the text of family time. When we all look back, we can see blocks of time that we used for other purposes after our "team time" that left family out.

I will say one thing, if 4 week-ends are eating you up that you did not spend with gramps, then you need to quit blaming baseball for taking it up. THE LESSON HERE FOR young people, now and future, is with all your "down time" you should visit and talk, go places and shop with them, see if they need anything, call them up. There are 365 days in the year and if you neglect them don't shove guilt-trips on the rest of athletes.

So everybody gets greased, right??I'm sorry, I really don't mean that in a mean,sarcastic way, I just mean for you to think. Is a bad solution for everybody,satisfactory to everybody? Let's just lay the real cards out and quit with the posturing. It is slowly coming out what the real "heartburn" is about. Coaches salivating over grade-schoolers, can't wait till they get up to them,and then they decide that they want to play at "X" school for"X" coach. Coach upset,cries of "recruitment", unfair!!, should have been at our school. As a coach, I don't recall ever coaching AGAINST a player. I coach my players. I prepare my defense for what the other player can do. And excuse me, the coaching does not get easier with great talent. You should be coaching the same no matter your talent level. The "results" may be better with a higher talent level, but you took the job to coach the kids that want to play on your team, not whine about the kids that decided to go play in another "yard". So how high are you willing to build the "fence" to try to keep kids in?? Even "KING KONG" eventually busted the gate. The ones who built the "high gate" got trampled into toe-jam. Kong crashed and burned. Is that what you want for yourself and the kidsd? The selfish woman before Solomon cried" YES, CUT THE BABY IN HALF, THAT IS FAIR!!!". Solomon wisely went with the woman that cried "SPARE THE CHILD!!" Can we do less than he did?????

How about banning the coaches and A.D.'s for two years and leave the real participants alone??? I will go ahead and say it now and not wait for the howl. That would be an ignorant solution and if it is ignorant, then so is the banning of kids for two years. This morning is my TEED OFF day. It will take the week-end to get back down. I cannot conceive in my thinking what these "educated" members are putting together and passing it off as a solution that works. Do they all have a degree in "SNAKE-OILISM"? Are there that many out there that have swallowed this "mixture"? This committee is "choking on a gnat and trying to swallow a camel".

I left out my "p' in symptom . I was , I was passing out!!

O.K., while all these threads have been posted I have been breathing. I breathed and breathed and....... I almost passed out!! [ just funning you ] Just one correction, classes are not created by the number of schools that offer that sport. They are created by student enrollment. The school fits into a class by it's student numbers. Schools can apply to move up or down by verifying their enrollments. The schools can choose to offer whatever sports they feel they can [ or have to ] support. That is why some schools understand they will have to reach out a little farther to play or compete in something that schools close by do not offer. The recruitment and money and all other charges are symtoms of the problem, not THE problem. The public schools sense that the private are/can attract more "athletes" in all sports. So the school that has 500 students has to play the "private" that has 900-2000 students knowing they have selected their players from 35-50 tryouts against a possible 100-200, maybe more. The majority of coaches would have no gripes playing public or private in championship competition if their enrollment was closer to theirs. It would be "the best team win!". Class play at this point is the "spoon-full of sugar that will make the medicine go down". You swallow that other stuff, and you are going to wear that"I sucked a lemon look" for quite some time. I prefer the smile and handshake. There are reasons that certain people get put on those committees; most are programmed already. They are not going to see any light other than the carbide they are carrying.

I am going to say some things about this and then I will "Fight No More Forever", or something like that. [ maybe ] I think for every "sweet victory" out there, there were/are dozens of "sour losses". When you put all sports into classes it doesn't matter if a school does not have a team in all sports. They are in classes for the sports they do provide. The comment about "what if they don't have a football team?" makes no sense for this discussion. I don't say that with any harshness, just a reminder. At this stage of development creating a Class System in all sports is the viable solution. If this is not the solution, then why not do away with classes for football and just play the alligned districts? Of course that is a silly question. ANNNND, if that is a silly question, then it should stand that there is a need to class the other sports. The football classes were created to make equity across the board for smaller schools vs larger schools. Why then is it not viable for all other sports? This is the solution, but I don't think I will see it in my time as a coach and educater.

Now, we are seeing what just doesn't work in these early proposals. I see wisdom starting to kick in with a quiet understanding of what's going on instead of angry lashing out. I agree with the idea of several of you that creating classes in all sports will be the only ultimate solution that will eventually heal all the schools. Anything else and the problem will continue to fester and create much anger. The basketball continues to pop up as the blocking point. My question is,why?? They are not above the problem. They are a major component of it. The idea of bringing all the class championships together in a "SWEET SIXTEEN" sounds great. It accomplishes the class system and the preservation of the "SWEET SIXTEEN" for the purists.

I feel better that my comments created a "stop,look,and comment" . We really agree on this, you just did not know it. [ just for the sake of it, that is why the presidential veto can be overidden by a 2/3 majority vote of congress ] But you hit my point, that it does not end there with the majority vote to create that action; rather that "end" should be the beginning of meaningful and respectful dialogue between all parties. With both sides starting off sincere in their determination to arrive at a solution and being respectful of the feelings and desires of each other, this can be solved.

Am I hearing what I am reading? That the elected members of a board know better than the people who put them in? Do you people understand the term "Representative Assembly" ? This reminds us of the poll taken of Democrats before the last presidential election on whether they agreed on the national party platform. 92% of Democrats across the country did not agree withe national party platform, yet the "know-better" leaders continue to push that agenda because it is their beliefs. How long did vanilla coke stay on the market? Obviously someone at Coca Cola felt it was good and right, but the majority of the public said "you are wrong" and refused to buy. The schools are not "children" to have "adult" decisions made for them. You will get nowhere with that.

I agree with the last statement of the paragraph. This stood out. A long time ago I did not feel this way. But as time has gone by and many external things have changed along with young people, I have changed. We say we want more opportunities for our athletes. We state that those opportunities need to be expanded. Yet, we argue over "school boundaries" and fight over what school a young person is going to attend. Even our state's governing body over athletics contradicts this very statement. If an athlete decides to go to another school, he / she is ruled ineligible to compete immediately. They then have to go through every kind of hassle to show why they should be allowed to compete. This is expanding opportunities? We all realize there must be regulations to ensure fair play. However, to keep an athlete in a place they would rather not be cannot be productive. If a player wants to go elsewhere, let them go and be happy and play. The real argument, problem, is the perception-reality of large, student population schools competing against schools that have less. I cannot see any basis another school has if it is a 1600-2000 student school vs. another of the same. School situations have changed so drastically with population shifts that the time has come for class play in all sports. I know that is heresy [ Catholics will understand that better than protestants ] to a lot of so-called basketball purists. Why is it always the basketball purists that run screaming at the word class and none of the other sports? Dividing play into classes for all sports is the only real solution that will work. You people know it, I have come to realize it. We can "Task-Force" the issue for years and there is no other solution that will fit. Any other conclusion is only a band-aid over the wound. The real roadblocks to athletic progress are the individuals who proclaim that the reason not to change is they have seen every state basketball tournament for the last 50 years and it will kill the tradition. Well, it is time to create new tradition and build on the old. Carving boundaries and miles of radius for attendence is ridiculous and makes intelligent people look foolish. Divide all sports into classes and you have "graded" the field. Then apply the playing rules and you have " leveled" the field.

Thanks for the kind welcome, very appreciated.

I have read these hotly debated statements for quite some time now. There are several that are very well thought out, very well put. There are also a lot that are knee-jerk reaction statements that cause individuals to "flame up" and respond. I have been a coach in three sports and have been in state tournament play in two of them. I have coached a "longtime" and I will leave that there. I can see the hurt and resentment from the private schools. I can see the point of the public schools. There are logical, real debatable items from both sides. I do think the KHSAA was wrong to back away initially from the strong statement that was made by the schools that was demonstrated by the vote count. This simply says there is a real perceived problem and "we need to talk". To brush off the large vote margin allows a wound to fester until it just gets worse. Both sides need to be calm, collect thoughts, listen with real ears, and be prepared for compromise and not "Total Victory" for either side. Our whole being as Americans is built on our ability to compromise and come away with great results. I don't want to write a book here so I will finish with some things may not stay the same. Just because it has been done a certain way for a long time should not be in the debate. If it is then there will never be a solution that all can enjoy, there will be a lingering bitterness afterwards. I do think that we have evolved in our sports that is time to consider how [ not if ] we can impliment changes that give opportunities for others, not seek fairness, that is an elusive thing that implies to make some fight with one arm tied or a leg. That will not work.