I agree with you on this but I will say this regarding Texas. Texas is WAY more advanced when it comes to saftey precautions when it comes to injuries and emergency protocols.[/url]

 

Everything is always 'bigger & better' in Texas. :isurrender:

What is your reasoning behind this statement? Because they start practice later? There is only so much you can do with injuries and emergency protocols.

 

I will say this about the state of Texas and their safety tips. Each doctor, band director & member, athletic trainer, coach and athlete have to watch videos and do certain compliance training when it comes to emergency protocols for sporting events each year.

 

Also, and this has nothing to do with 2 a days but do you realize that the bands at your high school can be out on the black top/field no matter what the heat index is. With the State of Texas the band falls under the UIL and must adhere to the rules.

 

I am just stating a the point that Texas starts their practices later and gets done about the sametime as we do in the state of Kentucky. I am kind of curious on why Kentucky allows so much time from the 1st day of when practice begins to the first day of scrimmage/game.

I am just stating a the point that Texas starts their practices later and gets done about the sametime as we do in the state of Kentucky. I am kind of curious on why Kentucky allows so much time from the 1st day of when practice begins to the first day of scrimmage/game.

If we are talking about safety of the players. Why would anyone not want more practice prior to the beginning of the season? If we are concerned about safety, more practice would ensure better acclamation to the heat, better tackling technique, better conditioning, better muscle memory, and better overal condition of the players.

 

Again, if we are concerned about player safety, we should lobby for better preparation of players, coaching staff, and support staff (IE: trainers, physicians, and administrators). Not say, hey, we only need one or two weeks before the first scrimmage, then be surprised when players are dropping like flies, cramping up in the first quarter, and tackling with their heads down increasing the chance of injury.

 

What is the number one way to prevent injury? To train and practice proper technique.

Very good post VoR, you have made some scellent points.

I do not have a thing against 2 a days if conducted in a safe manner.

I am all for the education of the coaches anbd AD's on this and I believe that most schools are very well aware of these safety concerns and act in a responsible and safe manner to the kids. I know of one school that monitors temperatures/humidity and if and when it gets to a certain level then practice is over for that time. Multiple water, watermelon, popsicle breaks are given as well.

I know that today is a far cry from the way thinking was say 25-30 years ago and longer. Some of the older ones will know what I am saying......the days of if you needed water that meant you were weak, or if a kid started cramping up/showing heat exhaust symptoms it was "take a handful of salt tablets, a drink of water and get back out there". That kind of thinking was common place years ago and is (at least I hope) irresponsible and a thing of the past. Anyone still doing that should not be in coaching or in h.s. athletics.....period.

 

I remember those days well. I have been amazed that nobody died during our practices. "Water makes you weak" was the slogan we constantly heard. I remember passing out more than once. We had a o-line coach one year that used to make us push an old Crouthers sled until somebody "puked.":puke:

I have seen both conducted: two-a-days, and three-a-days with no problems they have been very tough and physical practices as well. I think the risk lies in how the practices are ran, how breaks are given, pre-hyrdation, as well as expectations of coaches. You can have one practice a day and a kid can die if you do not use common sense.

I agree with you on this but I will say this regarding Texas. Texas is WAY more advanced when it comes to saftey precautions when it comes to injuries and emergency protocols. The other thing I find interesting that we (Kentucky) start really early with practices compared to other states. Per the UIL website for the state of Texas they are not able to start until August 3. In Kentucky we are already 2 weeks into practice. I know Kansas is pretty close to that as well. My point to this is that we (KY) have almost 3 - 4 weeks of full pads of practices before our FIRST scrimmage compared to where TX has one 1. I think some of where we might have some issues is the recovery time of kids and the way they react to heat.

 

If anyone is interested to see the dates you can go here

 

I'm confused. The quote you replied to said they were having 7 on 7's in Texas but then you say they can't start practice till August 3. I think a 7 on 7 qualifies as practice. Help me out.

I'm confused. The quote you replied to said they were having 7 on 7's in Texas but then you say they can't start practice till August 3. I think a 7 on 7 qualifies as practice. Help me out.

 

Our 7 on 7's are a part of a passing league. It falls under seperate guidelines from our 2-a-days.

I'm confused. The quote you replied to said they were having 7 on 7's in Texas but then you say they can't start practice till August 3. I think a 7 on 7 qualifies as practice. Help me out.

 

 

Not to be snippet but does 7 on 7 qualify before or after dead period in the state of KY? It is a league not full practice.

Two a days are probably safer than the alternative. Two a days allow teams to schedule around the heat. Ban two a days and schools will just have longer single practice sessions that will run into the heat of the day. So then I guess we have to pass a law that says no practice allowed between the hours of 10 and 6. So then teams start practice at 6 pm and run till 9:30 or 10. Then someone says you have to limit practice to 3 hours or end them by 9:00 .... and on and on and on. And no matter what you do, some child on some field is going to die from an unusual and unforeseeable incident. You can't make enough laws that will prevent every single possible tragedy.

 

Here is what I propose. Educate coaches and AD's on safety and put responsibility for safety on the AD's. Make the AD's the enforcer and let parents know to address any concerns to the AD's. If the AD's know they are on the hook and it is their responsibility, then things will run as safely as possible. This gets parents out of having to address their kid's coaches and worrying about any impact from that. Finally, if you are a parent of a player, go watch practice. Ask your child about practice. If everyone takes on their share of responsibility, we will keep our children as safe as we can. And still some child, somewhere is going to die because we are all fallible humans and accidents happen. Let's just make sure everyone behaves responsibly, do the best we can and pray for everyone's safety.

 

Problem with that is that the AD has several sports to be overseeing and cannot, at least at the smaller schools, be at every football practice when they have a volleyball, two soccer teams, two golf teams, and a cross country team to be overseeing also.

 

In addition, at our school AD is also the groundskeeper and is mowing the fields for the two soccer teams, the football teams, as well as keeping the field mowed for the recreation soccer league and baseball/softball fields.

Not to be snippet but does 7 on 7 qualify before or after dead period in the state of KY? It is a league not full practice.

 

Kentucky is just now starting its dead period and the 7 on 7's have been going on for the past couple of weeks.

Kentucky is just now starting its dead period and the 7 on 7's have been going on for the past couple of weeks.

 

Correct but the 7 on 7's are now complete in the state of Kentucky due to the fact that we are in dead period.

I have seen both conducted: two-a-days, and three-a-days with no problems they have been very tough and physical practices as well. I think the risk lies in how the practices are ran, how breaks are given, pre-hyrdation, as well as expectations of coaches. You can have one practice a day and a kid can die if you do not use common sense.

 

Well said.:thumb:

Very few schools have a full time trainer.

 

I really didn't know this. Geez, West Carter has a trainer and I thought we were the last to get everything.

 

Two a days are probably safer than the alternative. Two a days allow teams to schedule around the heat. Ban two a days and schools will just have longer single practice sessions that will run into the heat of the day. So then I guess we have to pass a law that says no practice allowed between the hours of 10 and 6. So then teams start practice at 6 pm and run till 9:30 or 10. Then someone says you have to limit practice to 3 hours or end them by 9:00 .... and on and on and on. And no matter what you do, some child on some field is going to die from an unusual and unforeseeable incident. You can't make enough laws that will prevent every single possible tragedy.

 

Here is what I propose. Educate coaches and AD's on safety and put responsibility for safety on the AD's. Make the AD's the enforcer and let parents know to address any concerns to the AD's. If the AD's know they are on the hook and it is their responsibility, then things will run as safely as possible. This gets parents out of having to address their kid's coaches and worrying about any impact from that. Finally, if you are a parent of a player, go watch practice. Ask your child about practice. If everyone takes on their share of responsibility, we will keep our children as safe as we can. And still some child, somewhere is going to die because we are all fallible humans and accidents happen. Let's just make sure everyone behaves responsibly, do the best we can and pray for everyone's safety.

 

Great post.

 

Two-a-days are fine if you do them the right way... Condition and lift early in the morning. Get your hard "football" practice done at 7 p.m. or after. There are ways to avoid the heating of the day, and still have two-a-days.

 

:thumb:

 

I'm a fan of two-a-days. As folks have said, they must be done well to minimize risk. We have two full time trainers at the school I coach. We also have cool zones and tons of water all over the practice fields. We also don't go in the heat of the day. I think two-a-days help the younger players see the effort it takes to be successful and they get a crash course in what we do. For the older players, it gets them in the football mindset both physically and mentally.

 

Risks need to be controlled, but if they are, I like the two-a-day practice.

 

Are there any coaches on this site that are against them? Also, I think malachi's question is a good one; are there any programs folks can point to directly and say "these guys don't have two-a-days"?

 

:thumb::thumb:

 

I have seen both conducted: two-a-days, and three-a-days with no problems they have been very tough and physical practices as well. I think the risk lies in how the practices are ran, how breaks are given, pre-hyrdation, as well as expectations of coaches. You can have one practice a day and a kid can die if you do not use common sense.

 

Great points.

Problem with that is that the AD has several sports to be overseeing and cannot, at least at the smaller schools, be at every football practice when they have a volleyball, two soccer teams, two golf teams, and a cross country team to be overseeing also.

 

In addition, at our school AD is also the groundskeeper and is mowing the fields for the two soccer teams, the football teams, as well as keeping the field mowed for the recreation soccer league and baseball/softball fields.[/QUOTE]

 

 

I'd be surprised if the AD couldn't get some supporters of those programs to volunteer to cut the fields for him so he could devote time to other duties that require his AD skills (such as making sure that practices are conducted in a safe manner).

 

Do you really think he has to be at every event of every sport to emphasize to his coaches the importance of conducting safe practices in the heat? I don't. I'd think that if he met with his coaches and developed a protocol for how practices are to be conducted in the heat (mandatory water breaks every so often and having the coaches actually watch to make sure the kids are drinking the water during the breaks; reviewing with the coaches the signs of heat stress and heat exhaustion; procedures to be followed if such signs are observed; weigh-ins before and after practice to check for weight loss to due water loss and actions to be taken if there is to much weight loss; requiring coaches to stress to the kids after the last practice of the day for the need to hydrate the night before and making sure the parents are informed of their need to make sure that the kids do so; making sure that the parents of kids on any type of medication check with the doctors to see if the medication has any adverse effect on the ability of the kid to practice/play in the heat, and if so, inform the parents to the need to so inform the coaches; etc., etc.) and then the AD spot checked to make sure the coaches are following such protocol, it would be sufficient.

 

There is a lot of information out there concerning what to do and what not to do when practicing in the heat and that info is easily accessible by the AD if he looks or asks. And there will be even more info via the medical training course being put together by the KHSAA (as a result of the new legislation). Folks, it's not rocket science. It's just making sure that the coaches, players and parents understand the risks and the procedures of eliminating/minimizing the risk.

I agree with most of this. However the responsibility falls on the trainer. A trainer who is required to be on site, has the authority to pull kids out and shut practice down completely if the heat rises above the acceptable limit. If schools do not have this policy in place, they are asking for bad things to happen.

 

Trainers are not required to be on sight.