Not sure, why, but I thought it was a mandate that a trainer had to be on site during athletic activities. Maybe I am mistaken about this. If I am then it should be.

 

I know quite a few schools in the 10th that do not have an athletic trainer at ANY of their events. It is hard to believe IMO that schools are not required to have an athletic trainer for all events.

 

I know that the school system that PRP is in has required that an athletic trainer is at all events but what is sad is that what I was told this all had to do with the tragic and unnecessary death of one their athletes.

What top programs don't run two a days?

 

Some programs only have "multiple sessions" while at CAMP -- a four-or-five-day period when you've got your players for the entire day and night.

 

This allows you to avoid the heat at MUCH different times than you would if you had transportation-to-and-from practice concerns. For instance, first practice from 8:00am to 9:30am and late practice from 7:30pm to 9:00pm.

 

By the way, it is not legal to have back-to-back days of full-pads multiple sessions until the 14th day of practice.

Some programs only have "multiple sessions" while at CAMP -- a four-or-five-day period when you've got your players for the entire day and night.

 

This allows you to avoid the heat at MUCH different times than you would if you had transportation-to-and-from practice concerns. For instance, first practice from 8:00am to 9:30am and late practice from 7:30pm to 9:00pm.

 

By the way, it is not legal to have back-to-back days of full-pads multiple sessions until the 14th day of practice.

 

Not really sure you answered my question:confused:

Two-a-days are fine if you do them the right way... Condition and lift early in the morning. Get your hard "football" practice done at 7 p.m. or after. There are ways to avoid the heating of the day, and still have two-a-days.

Two a days are probably safer than the alternative. Two a days allow teams to schedule around the heat. Ban two a days and schools will just have longer single practice sessions that will run into the heat of the day. So then I guess we have to pass a law that says no practice allowed between the hours of 10 and 6. So then teams start practice at 6 pm and run till 9:30 or 10. Then someone says you have to limit practice to 3 hours or end them by 9:00 .... and on and on and on. And no matter what you do, some child on some field is going to die from an unusual and unforeseeable incident. You can't make enough laws that will prevent every single possible tragedy.

 

Here is what I propose. Educate coaches and AD's on safety and put responsibility for safety on the AD's. Make the AD's the enforcer and let parents know to address any concerns to the AD's. If the AD's know they are on the hook and it is their responsibility, then things will run as safely as possible. This gets parents out of having to address their kid's coaches and worrying about any impact from that. Finally, if you are a parent of a player, go watch practice. Ask your child about practice. If everyone takes on their share of responsibility, we will keep our children as safe as we can. And still some child, somewhere is going to die because we are all fallible humans and accidents happen. Let's just make sure everyone behaves responsibly, do the best we can and pray for everyone's safety.

 

Great Post! Everything we do in life has risks,the key is to make them minimal.

I'm a fan of two-a-days. As folks have said, they must be done well to minimize risk. We have two full time trainers at the school I coach. We also have cool zones and tons of water all over the practice fields. We also don't go in the heat of the day. I think two-a-days help the younger players see the effort it takes to be successful and they get a crash course in what we do. For the older players, it gets them in the football mindset both physically and mentally.

 

Risks need to be controlled, but if they are, I like the two-a-day practice.

 

Are there any coaches on this site that are against them? Also, I think malachi's question is a good one; are there any programs folks can point to directly and say "these guys don't have two-a-days"?

Of course 2 a days are not like they used to be. Now you can not have multiple practices on the same day in pads. So, now it is one practice in pads and one practice of conditioning.

 

Some schools practice on the field in the morning, then lift, then run. Yes, it makes for a long day but the day is over by around noon. They go from 8 am until 11:30 or 12.

Not really sure you answered my question:confused:

 

Sorry I didn't get specific. I don't know exactly how other programs run their pre-season -- too wrapped up in our own to really get concerned with others.

 

I also don't know if you'd consider our program a "top program" so I didn't make that assumption; just thought I'd mentioned how we do it as a way of saying there's a way to have a successful program and not have 2-a-days.

 

I do know that most teams I'm familiar with (including several of what most would call "top programs") go to a CAMP of some kind after Aug. 1. My ASSUMPTION is that they get their 'multiple-sessions' done there like we do, but I know a few (Boyle Co.? Danville?) that have at least the 'modified two-a-days' that are within the new rules passed by the khsaa prior to going away.

Two a days are probably safer than the alternative. Two a days allow teams to schedule around the heat. Ban two a days and schools will just have longer single practice sessions that will run into the heat of the day. So then I guess we have to pass a law that says no practice allowed between the hours of 10 and 6. So then teams start practice at 6 pm and run till 9:30 or 10. Then someone says you have to limit practice to 3 hours or end them by 9:00 .... and on and on and on. And no matter what you do, some child on some field is going to die from an unusual and unforeseeable incident. You can't make enough laws that will prevent every single possible tragedy.

 

Here is what I propose. Educate coaches and AD's on safety and put responsibility for safety on the AD's. Make the AD's the enforcer and let parents know to address any concerns to the AD's. If the AD's know they are on the hook and it is their responsibility, then things will run as safely as possible. This gets parents out of having to address their kid's coaches and worrying about any impact from that. Finally, if you are a parent of a player, go watch practice. Ask your child about practice. If everyone takes on their share of responsibility, we will keep our children as safe as we can. And still some child, somewhere is going to die because we are all fallible humans and accidents happen. Let's just make sure everyone behaves responsibly, do the best we can and pray for everyone's safety.

Very good post VoR, you have made some scellent points.

I do not have a thing against 2 a days if conducted in a safe manner.

I am all for the education of the coaches anbd AD's on this and I believe that most schools are very well aware of these safety concerns and act in a responsible and safe manner to the kids. I know of one school that monitors temperatures/humidity and if and when it gets to a certain level then practice is over for that time. Multiple water, watermelon, popsicle breaks are given as well.

I know that today is a far cry from the way thinking was say 25-30 years ago and longer. Some of the older ones will know what I am saying......the days of if you needed water that meant you were weak, or if a kid started cramping up/showing heat exhaust symptoms it was "take a handful of salt tablets, a drink of water and get back out there". That kind of thinking was common place years ago and is (at least I hope) irresponsible and a thing of the past. Anyone still doing that should not be in coaching or in h.s. athletics.....period.

I know quite a few schools in the 10th that do not have an athletic trainer at ANY of their events. It is hard to believe IMO that schools are not required to have an athletic trainer for all events.

 

I know that the school system that PRP is in has required that an athletic trainer is at all events but what is sad is that what I was told this all had to do with the tragic and unnecessary death of one their athletes.

 

This is not true. Jefferson County does not require an athletic trainer be on site and they haven't instituted such a policy since last summer.

 

I see no reason to do two-a-days simply to do them as a tradition or whatever. There are other ways to build "team" and commeraderie. Two-a-days should only be used if there are specific things that you can't get in and IMVHO should be few in number. A school that runs more then a week of two-a-days is overdoing it as far as I'm concerned.

This is not true. Jefferson County does not require an athletic trainer be on site and they haven't instituted such a policy since last summer.

 

I see no reason to do two-a-days simply to do them as a tradition or whatever. There are other ways to build "team" and commeraderie. Two-a-days should only be used if there are specific things that you can't get in and IMVHO should be few in number. A school that runs more then a week of two-a-days is overdoing it as far as I'm concerned.

 

And you are certainly entitled to your opinion. Others may have differing opinions as to the value of two a days. I look at it rather simply: if a head coach doesn't think there is much value in them, then don't do them. But the head coach shouldn't don't try to force his opinion on other coaches or try to have the rule changed (not suggesting that's happened.....yet). Two a days can be safely done and some kids can get a lot of value out of the additional reps additional practices bring. Done smartly and safely, some kids can also learn a lot about executing through fatigue.

 

I will tell you that I'm beginning to sense from my involvement with high school sports that some coaches are subtly trying to place restrictions on practice times and frequency because those coaches either themselves are unwilling to put in the time other coaches do or because their kids are unwilling to do so. No one coach has come out and blatantly said it, but I almost get the impression that some coaches are thinking: "hey if we can't or won't get in the number of practices that other programs are, let's see if we can limit the other coaches to bring them to our practice level". I truly hope my impression is wrong, as it would be extremely disappointing for football coaches to think and feel that way. We've made great progress in Ky high school football. No reason to start the "dumbing down" process now. It would be a huge step in the wrong direction.

And you are certainly entitled to your opinion. Others may have differing opinions as to the value of two a days. I look at it rather simply: if a head coach doesn't think there is much value in them, then don't do them. But the head coach shouldn't don't try to force his opinion on other coaches or try to have the rule changed (not suggesting that's happened.....yet). Two a days can be safely done and some kids can get a lot of value out of the additional reps additional practices bring. Done smartly and safely, some kids can also learn a lot about executing through fatigue.

 

I will tell you that I'm beginning to sense from my involvement with high school sports that some coaches are subtly trying to place restrictions on practice times and frequency because those coaches either themselves are unwilling to put in the time other coaches do or because their kids are unwilling to do so. No one coach has come out and blatantly said it, but I almost get the impression that some coaches are thinking: "hey if we can't or won't get in the number of practices that other programs are, let's see if we can limit the other coaches to bring them to our practice level". I truly hope my impression is wrong, as it would be extremely disappointing for football coaches to think and feel that way. We've made great progress in Ky high school football. No reason to start the "dumbing down" process now. It would be a huge step in the wrong direction.

 

You are so right.

Another step in the wusification of America.

This is not true. Jefferson County does not require an athletic trainer be on site and they haven't instituted such a policy since last summer.

 

I see no reason to do two-a-days simply to do them as a tradition or whatever. There are other ways to build "team" and commeraderie. Two-a-days should only be used if there are specific things that you can't get in and IMVHO should be few in number. A school that runs more then a week of two-a-days is overdoing it as far as I'm concerned.

 

Wow! Who treats serious injury or illness at the time of such event?

What top programs don't run two a days?

 

I know that Coach Hilton never did 2 a days and also Coach Larkey when he was at Rockcastle never did. Both of those guys are pretty good coaches.

Wow! Who treats serious injury or illness at the time of such event?

 

The coaches or in many instances some volunteer who illegally calls themselves "the trainer".