St.X and Trinity have unfair advantages, coaching, facilities, blah blah blah....

I haven't seen anyone use the word "unfair" in this thread ... maybe they have, and if so I missed it.

 

I have certainly not used the word "unfair" to characterize the advantages that Trinity and St. Xavier enjoy ... I'm simply pointing them out.

Ty Scroggins anyone?

You would have a difficult time convincing anyone that Scroggins doesn't have the best collection of athletes in 3A.

How many public schools start in early january training themselves at a ridiculous level, in order to be ready for practice, which starts in july? Not many I assume.

 

Im not saying public schools dont work hard. I can tell you of the few coaches I know who are currently coaching at public schools, that none of them can get thier kids to go at it as hard that early in the year, as the kids at T and X do. Some play other sports, some do other activities, some have jobs etc..

 

I cant speak for X, but Im almost certain that once January rolls around, its time to prepare for the season...weights, conditioning etc. I honestly believe that its at that point, where T and X begin to seperate themselves. Again, not downing the public schools, just merely stating an opinion.

How many kids at Trinity and St. Xavier play more than one sport? From my experience, it isn't many.

 

What that means that of the 200 or so kids in the football program, the majority of them are one-sport athletes, devoting their energies to a single sport.

 

That isn't necessarily the case at a lot of public schools, especially the smaller ones.

The argument about T and X's coaching staff having success because they are there is absurd. I would put my money on the coaching staff being the BIGGEST reason why T and X are successful. Remember folks, in the previous 10 years before Beatty arrived at Trinity, they won 2 titles.

I'm not around the programs, so I'm not qualified to make that judgment. I don't know that some of the Trinity fans on here that continually make that argument are the most objective fans, either.

 

I suspect that a lot of coaches would have success at Trinity ... maybe not to the same extent as Beatty, but I think they would win, too.

Public schools need to stop making excuses. Public schools must improve from top to bottom, from coaching to facilities, from administrations to teachers. T and X weren't always dominant, and in fact, it used to be the public schools who dominated in everything. What took place was T and X refusing to be second best to anyone anymore. Now its public schools who have to refuse to be second best.

 

That is of course, my opinion:thumb:

A convenient argument from your perspective ...

St.X and Trinity have unfair advantages, coaching, facilities, blah blah blah....

 

Ty Scroggins anyone?

 

Here it is, plain and simple. I may be rehashing other ideas, but so be it..

 

How many public schools start in early january training themselves at a ridiculous level, in order to be ready for practice, which starts in july? Not many I assume.

Im not saying public schools dont work hard. I can tell you of the few coaches I know who are currently coaching at public schools, that none of them can get thier kids to go at it as hard that early in the year, as the kids at T and X do. Some play other sports, some do other activities, some have jobs etc..

 

I cant speak for X, but Im almost certain that once January rolls around, its time to prepare for the season...weights, conditioning etc. I honestly believe that its at that point, where T and X begin to seperate themselves. Again, not downing the public schools, just merely stating an opinion.

 

We can sit here and say T and X have more boys to choose from, but lets be honest. How many D1 players to T and X annually send to college? I'd be willing to be that the top two public schools send more. Heck, in the early 2000's, Male was sending EVERYBODY to major colleges, yet they only beat T 1 out of 3.

 

The argument about T and X's coaching staff having success because they are there is absurd. I would put my money on the coaching staff being the BIGGEST reason why T and X are successful. Remember folks, in the previous 10 years before Beatty arrived at Trinity, they won 2 titles.

 

Public schools need to stop making excuses. Public schools must improve from top to bottom, from coaching to facilities, from administrations to teachers. T and X weren't always dominant, and in fact, it used to be the public schools who dominated in everything. What took place was T and X refusing to be second best to anyone anymore. Now its public schools who have to refuse to be second best.

 

That is of course, my opinion:thumb:

 

That is purely an uneducated guess on your part that is totally false.

 

 

 

What was Beatty's record before coming to T?

4. Somewhat stupidly - going away from the format in #3 because - and I remember a state school coach say this clearly - "that format guarantees Jefferson County a spot in the finals and that is just not right".

I have always maintained that it had more to do with the postseason travel situation. The state 4A schools were traveling all across Kentucky for playoff games while the Louisville schools never left town.

 

That was more "unfair" than anything else ... especially from a financial standpoint.

That is purely an uneducated guess on your part that is totally false.

 

 

 

What was Beatty's record before coming to T?

 

Im not sure of his record, I do however know he won NATIONAL coach of the year.

 

Not so uneducated I assume?

Im not sure of his record, I do however know he won NATIONAL coach of the year.

 

Not so uneducated I assume?

 

 

Then tell me who does not start lifting and preparing in Jan. That is what the first part of my post was speaking to.

Im not sure of his record, I do however know he won NATIONAL coach of the year.

 

Not so uneducated I assume?

National coach of the year awards are as much political awards as anything else.

 

Beatty, as I recall, won a state title or two at Blue Springs, one of the biggest public schools in Missouri.

 

I found this passage in an article about that school's current coach.

 

That’s when Crone and Blue Springs came calling. The Wildcats had enjoyed a run under Bob Beatty that would have been considered wildly successful for most schools, going 7-3 in consecutive seasons. But that wasn’t good for Wildcat fans. Beatty resigned and Donohoe was given the chance to accept his dream job.

What I would love to see, is in Boone County we have 4 high schools, divide up into 2 girls schools and 2 boys schools. That would keep the enrollment numbers similar to where they are now. Each high school would have about 1400 students.

 

 

 

Oh Well! I can only hope and wish!

Implicit in the "size advantage" argument is the assumption that the players that log significant playing time for X & T will no longer be part of the team.

 

X & T each carry more than 100 on their roster. Based upon watching some of their practices, roughly 70 - 80 (on the very high end) get the significant reps or play scout team.

 

Assuming X & T's campuses could only accommodate 700-800 students, why do you think most of those 70 - 80 would choose not to go to school there?

St.X and Trinity have unfair advantages, coaching, facilities, blah blah blah....

 

Ty Scroggins anyone?

 

Here it is, plain and simple. I may be rehashing other ideas, but so be it..

 

How many public schools start in early january training themselves at a ridiculous level, in order to be ready for practice, which starts in july? Not many I assume.

 

Im not saying public schools dont work hard. I can tell you of the few coaches I know who are currently coaching at public schools, that none of them can get thier kids to go at it as hard that early in the year, as the kids at T and X do. Some play other sports, some do other activities, some have jobs etc..

 

I cant speak for X, but Im almost certain that once January rolls around, its time to prepare for the season...weights, conditioning etc. I honestly believe that its at that point, where T and X begin to seperate themselves. Again, not downing the public schools, just merely stating an opinion.

 

We can sit here and say T and X have more boys to choose from, but lets be honest. How many D1 players to T and X annually send to college? I'd be willing to be that the top two public schools send more. Heck, in the early 2000's, Male was sending EVERYBODY to major colleges, yet they only beat T 1 out of 3.

 

The argument about T and X's coaching staff having success because they are there is absurd. I would put my money on the coaching staff being the BIGGEST reason why T and X are successful. Remember folks, in the previous 10 years before Beatty arrived at Trinity, they won 2 titles.

 

Public schools need to stop making excuses. Public schools must improve from top to bottom, from coaching to facilities, from administrations to teachers. T and X weren't always dominant, and in fact, it used to be the public schools who dominated in everything. What took place was T and X refusing to be second best to anyone anymore. Now its public schools who have to refuse to be second best.

 

That is of course, my opinion:thumb:

 

In NKY, I know the mantra at Highlands and Beechwood are "Next year's football starts the Monday after the State Finals"?? Hard Work + Committment = Success!! Not a new concept, but a very underused one??

In NKY, I know the mantra at Highlands and Beechwood are "Next year's football starts the Monday after the State Finals"?? Hard Work + Committment = Success!! Not a new concept, but a very underused one??

 

I think you might be surprised to know that a lot of teams start lifting the following Monday at the end of the season. The ones who do not will take one week off then start.

ScooterBob...who do you pull for? I've had boys go to Atherton/Male and I went to Iroquois, if you question my kids/myself or any public kid's desire then you don't know football, and thats a......well I really don't want to say, but you don't see what I've seen in these kids eyes.

 

Another point about "Numbers". SK, how many kids live in their county.

 

Do kids from surrounding counties go there? Is it an all boy school?

 

Boone County?

 

Ryle?

 

I always told myself I'd leave this fact alone until someone posted about the publics need to step it up or try harder.

Everytime that you bring up kids from out of county going to Trinity or X, I will ask you about Tony Driver....answer that sensibly and your argument may hold water.

 

That said, with the rules the way they are, our alums are free to live where they feel they will most prosper...be it Oldham, Jefferson, Bullitt, Spencer, or even Southern Indiana....if the rules were to change..with our alumni support, do you not think that people would sacrifice and either stay in Jefferson, or move back before their young man started High School? I feel its moot either way.

I think you might be surprised to know that a lot of teams start lifting the following Monday at the end of the season. The ones who do not will take one week off then start.

 

In that sense we really don't start until January, so we must be behind the 8 ball....get to work coach, time's a wasting.

"It's just the numbers" is such a lame and lazy argument that it's not even worth responding to anymore. The commitment level of everyone involved in the T and X programs is the difference. Kids start preparing for T and X in 3rd grade. If people would simply give the kids and coaches the credit they deserve and just accept that T and X have it figured out, emulate the programs, learn from the programs and implement the plan for success at their programs, more teams would start to compete.

Just throwing up your hands and blaming "numbers" will never be enough. Just wishing for "more numbers" will not solve the problem if your program doesn't know what to do with the numbers or how to create a powerhouse program with the numbers. Look deeper into these programs for the formula and then go copy it at your school, work the plan and see the results.

 

I agree that it's not just the numbers, it's the fact that the numbers can come from just about anywhere within reasonable driving distance.

It boils down to the haves and have nots. When you have 2000 male students to make a team with, odds are you will get your fair share of athletes.

 

 

Here is the enrollment report for Kentucky.

 

http://www.khsaa.org/reports/20062007schoolenrollmenttotalsbyenroll.pdf

 

Look at the column labeled ENROBOYS and you will see that T (1,361) and X (1,436) do have the most boys but not by nearly as wide a margin as many believe. There are 6 other schools with over 1,000 boys enrolled.

 

It isn't just about enrollment. It isn't just coaching. It isn't just geography of where the kids come from. I could go on. It is the whole package. If you are a public school, you first need a coach everyone believes in to be the magnet. Then you need the entire school community to rally behind that coach and support/promote the program every day of the week. You need to build your feeder so kids build loyalty and belief in the program along with skills. Lastly, and perhaps the most often overlooked part of the equation - you need to make your school a good academic school. There are many players that never start at T and X who make that team better every day in practice who know they will likely never start. But they are committed to the program and they know they will walk out of T and X winners off the field academically as well as being part of a winning team.

 

For anyone who doubts a public school program can be turned around fairly quickly, look up Cincinnati Taft High School. They were on the verge of ending their football program and then Mike Martin, former Bengal, took the head coaching job. The turn around there is a story that could be turned into a movie.

Here is the enrollment report for Kentucky.

 

http://www.khsaa.org/reports/20062007schoolenrollmenttotalsbyenroll.pdf

 

Look at the column labeled ENROBOYS and you will see that T (1,361) and X (1,436) do have the most boys but not by nearly as wide a margin as many believe. There are 6 other schools with over 1,000 boys enrolled.

 

It isn't just about enrollment. It isn't just coaching. It isn't just geography of where the kids come from. I could go on. It is the whole package. If you are a public school, you first need a coach everyone believes in to be the magnet. Then you need the entire school community to rally behind that coach and support/promote the program every day of the week. You need to build your feeder so kids build loyalty and belief in the program along with skills. Lastly, and perhaps the most often overlooked part of the equation - you need to make your school a good academic school. There are many players that never start at T and X who make that team better every day in practice who know they will likely never start. But they are committed to the program and they know they will walk out of T and X winners off the field academically as well as being part of a winning team.

 

For anyone who doubts a public school program can be turned around fairly quickly, look up Cincinnati Taft High School. They were on the verge of ending their football program and then Mike Martin, former Bengal, took the head coaching job. The turn around there is a story that could be turned into a movie.

 

VOR

 

Outstanding POSt.........you summed it up. Too bad others fail to see the wisdom of your thoughts and words. I guess it is far easier to latch onto a convenient excuse (i.e. 'numbers' , no boundaries, etc.) - rather than deal with the realities as you set out. :thumb:

Edited December 16, 200817 yr by Ram Tough