If the kids are attending traditional "feeder" schools, the coaches do have the right to talk to them. It would be silly to think otherwise. That is the only way you can build a program - you must have contact with YOUR middle school players. It is not recruiting since the assumption is that they would be attending your school anyway.

My son was recruited by St. Xavier, Trinity, DeSales, Holy Cross, Male, Manual, and Butler.

 

St. Xavier won out. We received a tuition bill for $8,775. I have the documents and canceled check to prove it.

If the kids are attending traditional "feeder" schools, the coaches do have the right to talk to them. It would be silly to think otherwise. That is the only way you can build a program - you must have contact with YOUR middle school players. It is not recruiting since the assumption is that they would be attending your school anyway.

 

Not sure that is accurate. Here is the bylaw: Show me where it says that. I have also bolded a few things concerning your point.

 

http://www.khsaa.org/handbook/bylaws/bylaw10.pdf

Bylaw 10. Recruitment

Sec. 1) Foreword

Pupils (both domestic and foreign) at any grade level shall

not be recruited to a member school of the KHSAA for the

purpose of participating in athletics, including recruitment

under the guise of academics.

Sec. 2) Definition

a) Recruiting is defined as an act, on behalf of or for

the benefit of, a school, which attempts to influence a

student to transfer to a member school for the purpose

of participating in athletics. Such also includes influencing

a student to remain at a school. A school official utilizing

an intermediary, such as, but not limited to a peer,

another school employee, a student, a parent or a

citizen, for the purpose of recruiting a student athlete

shall be in noncompliance.

b) An athletic coach or any other member of the school

staff shall not influence a student even if the student,

his/her parents or any intermediary from another school

makes the initial contact. In this situation, a coach or

staff member (paid or unpaid) should immediately refer

the person(s) to the school principal.

c) Influencing a student shall include, but shall not be

limited to the promise or instilling the expectation of

an athletic advantage, playing time, employment of the

student or his/her parents or relatives, housing for the

student or his/her parents, scholarships or financial

aid for which other members of the student body are

not generally eligible, or any other material or athletic

reward for which other members of the student body

are not generally eligible.

Sec. 3) Penalty

Any representative of a member school knowingly allowing

the recruitment of a student for the purpose of participating

in athletics or who should have known of such recruitment

shall be guilty of willful neglect of duty, misconduct, and/or

breach of contract. Such shall apply not only to coaches,

but also to personnel supervising coaches, such as, but

not limited to an athletic director, an assistant principal,

a principal, an assistant superintendent, a superintendent

or a school board member. This regulation shall also apply

to students or their parents.

I think it has been posted on here a bunch that the St. X and T football teams DO NOT draw from outside Jefferson County and DO NOT draw from non-Catholic feeder schools as people believe.

 

 

I don't think we ever purported that all of our students and/or student athletes live in and are from Jefferson County. The MAJORITY of Trinity and St.X's students and student athletes are products of the Catholic school system either in Louisville or the surrounding county.

I don't think we ever purported that all of our students and/or student athletes live in and are from Jefferson County. The MAJORITY of Trinity and St.X's students and student athletes are products of the Catholic school system either in Louisville or the surrounding county.

 

I am sorry I did not honestly mean to imply all. I meant to imply the great majority comes from Jefferson County.

So Saint Xavier is saying none of their coaches have ever attended a game in Clark County Indiana. Clark County is saying two of their kids have had contact with a coach from Saint Xavier after games. If a coach from Saint Xavier wearing Saint Xavier clothing was at games, I'd say several people were witnesses. This should be easy to prove if it happened.

So Saint Xavier is saying none of their coaches have ever attended a game in Clark County Indiana. Clark County is saying two of their kids have had contact with a coach from Saint Xavier after games. If a coach from Saint Xavier wearing Saint Xavier clothing was at games, I'd say several people were witnesses. This should be easy to prove if it happened.

 

Are you suggesting a lineup of the St. X coaches wearing St. X apparel for the kid to identify the offending coach?:lol:

 

I do agree that T has to be sitting there going, "Funny, X is in trouble again for.....hey, what the heck did we do."

 

They got a raw deal here.

Are you suggesting a lineup of the St. X coaches wearing St. X apparel for the kid to identify the offending coach?:lol:

 

I do agree that T has to be sitting there going, "Funny, X is in trouble again for.....hey, what the heck did we do."

 

They got a raw deal here.

 

Yes we did and that is one reason that I think that if allegations such as were listed in the article are ever proven, the guilty need to be punished VERY severely. I include Trinity in that. I also don't believe it is Trinity, based on conversations I have had with powers at Trinity. All I have ever heard is a strong commitment to "Not on my watch". This one should be relatively easy to prove or disprove. St X says no coach has attended a middle school game in Indiana. If he was there, I suspect that a lot of people saw him and if he was there the coaches credibility will be iffy. If no one saw him but the kid the story loses a lot of credibility and you have to believe the school.

Are you suggesting a lineup of the St. X coaches wearing St. X apparel for the kid to identify the offending coach?:lol:

 

Actually a line-up would be very easy and clear this thing up quickly. The player says it was a coach, show him this years (or last years) media guide for St. X and let him look at all of the pictures and allow him to substatiate his claim. This is what the report should have done before breaking the story with the tone that it had.

 

I am in agreement with a lot of the discussion about it being about choice. You want to send your child to the school that will allow them to preform well academically, athletically and "fit in". Some focus on academics, some athletics, some about fitting in. I take the word "recruiting" to primarily focus on athletics in these discussions because all schools recruit academically, they should and they have to! If the public schools don't get academically strong students they continue to fight the battle of low test scores, oversight, etc. Parochial schools also recruit, I've seen plenty of billboards and received mailings from the Louisville Catholic boys schools. It is about choice - and money. It is evident that if the Catholic schools don't keep enrollment up -they don't get tuition and have a harder time providing the service parents contract with them to provide. I was also under the impression (although I'm not 100%) that federal funding is based on student enrollment in the (public) school system. It is about the money. Paying $8K /yr carries with it certain expectations, you want the best that $8,000 can buy - academically, socially, athletically. I understand. Getting into one of the magnets in Jefferson County can also carry with it certain perks - most colleges know who Male, Manual, Butler, etc. are.

 

IMO the allegation should be investigated a little further than a "did you or your staff do it"? to substatiate the claim. I also think that a full reporting of it should be made (maybe even in the CJ) bring it out into the light - a lie cannot survive if everyone can see it.

Not sure that is accurate. Here is the bylaw: Show me where it says that. I have also bolded a few things concerning your point.

 

http://www.khsaa.org/handbook/bylaws/bylaw10.pdf

Bylaw 10. Recruitment

Sec. 1) Foreword

Pupils (both domestic and foreign) at any grade level shall

not be recruited to a member school of the KHSAA for the

purpose of participating in athletics, including recruitment

under the guise of academics.

Sec. 2) Definition

a) Recruiting is defined as an act, on behalf of or for

the benefit of, a school, which attempts to influence a

student to transfer to a member school for the purpose

of participating in athletics. Such also includes influencing

a student to remain at a school. A school official utilizing

an intermediary, such as, but not limited to a peer,

another school employee, a student, a parent or a

citizen, for the purpose of recruiting a student athlete

shall be in noncompliance.

b) An athletic coach or any other member of the school

staff shall not influence a student even if the student,

his/her parents or any intermediary from another school

makes the initial contact. In this situation, a coach or

staff member (paid or unpaid) should immediately refer

the person(s) to the school principal.

c) Influencing a student shall include, but shall not be

limited to the promise or instilling the expectation of

an athletic advantage, playing time, employment of the

student or his/her parents or relatives, housing for the

student or his/her parents, scholarships or financial

aid for which other members of the student body are

not generally eligible, or any other material or athletic

reward for which other members of the student body

are not generally eligible.

Sec. 3) Penalty

Any representative of a member school knowingly allowing

the recruitment of a student for the purpose of participating

in athletics or who should have known of such recruitment

shall be guilty of willful neglect of duty, misconduct, and/or

breach of contract. Such shall apply not only to coaches,

but also to personnel supervising coaches, such as, but

not limited to an athletic director, an assistant principal,

a principal, an assistant superintendent, a superintendent

or a school board member. This regulation shall also apply

to students or their parents.

 

This regulation is poorly drafted. First, lets assume for a minute that the allegation is true--two ST.X coaches attended a middle school game in Indiana and spoke these words to a player-- "Hey young man, you played a great game today. I'm Coach Whoever from St.X. Have you heard about our open house, its November 1, 2007, stop by and check us out."

 

By the way, those conversations take place routinely at CSAA games by Jefferson County public school coaches--Routinely. And from reading the rule, I can't say there is anything illegal about it. If you read the first part literally, a high school coach talking to a grade school kid would not be attempting to have that kid "transfer". Transfer suggests changing high schools after you've already enrolled in high school. Anyway, in looking at the the rule, recruiting is defined by the term "influencing", which is defined as including but not limited to the "promise of an athletic advantage, playing time, employment of parents or relatives, housing, scholarships or financial aid which the general student body is not eligible to receive."

Well, I got news for you, once you start defining terms you're stuck with the definition you provide and nothing set forth in the CJ article even remotely suggests a violation of the rule. Now, I'm not sure what rule the state of Indiana has on recruiting or whether St.X would be bound by it since X would not be a member of the Indiana high school athletic association.

I think an equally good question is, if you tased Wilson Sears is it a violation?:lol::lol::lol::lol:

I know most of you on BGP are Private School Supporters :fight: and feel the need to demonize :fire: someone from the public side, but what in the world does Mr. Sears have to do with this thread?

 

Thank you,

:bunny::bunny::bunny::bunny:

This regulation is poorly drafted. First, lets assume for a minute that the allegation is true--two ST.X coaches attended a middle school game in Indiana and spoke these words to a player-- "Hey young man, you played a great game today. I'm Coach Whoever from St.X. Have you heard about our open house, its November 1, 2007, stop by and check us out."

 

By the way, those conversations take place routinely at CSAA games by Jefferson County public school coaches--Routinely. And from reading the rule, I can't say there is anything illegal about it. If you read the first part literally, a high school coach talking to a grade school kid would not be attempting to have that kid "transfer". Transfer suggests changing high schools after you've already enrolled in high school. Anyway, in looking at the the rule, recruiting is defined by the term "influencing", which is defined as including but not limited to the "promise of an athletic advantage, playing time, employment of parents or relatives, housing, scholarships or financial aid which the general student body is not eligible to receive."

Well, I got news for you, once you start defining terms you're stuck with the definition you provide and nothing set forth in the CJ article even remotely suggests a violation of the rule. Now, I'm not sure what rule the state of Indiana has on recruiting or whether St.X would be bound by it since X would not be a member of the Indiana high school athletic association.

 

I agree that the regulation is poorly worded, but if anyone uses a technical reading of the regulation to escape penalties for athletic recruiting, shame on them.

I know most of you on BGP are Private School Supporters :fight: and feel the need to demonize :fire: someone from the public side, but what in the world does Mr. Sears have to do with this thread?

 

Thank you,

:bunny::bunny::bunny::bunny:

 

Ask ladiesbballcoach whom brought Mr. Sears into this thread. BTW - I beleive lbbc is a public school supporters.

See St. Xavier's response at

 

http://www.saintx.com/news/news.asp?ID=2717

 

First of all. I disagree with the way that KHSAA considers and handles "recruiting". I'm all for any kid going to the situation which is best suited for his or her future.

 

 

HOWEVER, this response makes me laugh.

"Further, Saint Xavier High School adheres to a very strict policy that “no Saint Xavier coaches are to attend any public middle school athletic contests.”"

 

How many public middle school football teams are there in Jeffereson Co? The correct answer is NONE. St X coaches have free reign to visit optimist leagues and the catholic leagues where all the football players come from. I just think the response is poor and misleading.

I agree that the regulation is poorly worded, but if anyone uses a technical reading of the regulation to escape penalties for athletic recruiting, shame on them.

 

I agree....but even if you ignore the "transfer" language and get to the substance of the rule there is absolutely nothing in there that even remotely suggests that what was reported int he CJ was a violation of the rule. Trinity Alum, my friend, you're sadly misinformed if you don't think the "Friends of Trinity" boys are not out attending CSAA and Jefferson County Optimist League games (of which 99% of the players attend public schools). Everyone's getting hung up on the fact that this supposedly happened in Southern Indiana. So what? The rule makes no distinction between recruiting public school kids, private school kids, kids from Indiana, Tennessee or Mars. You can't "recruit", as defined by the rule! And you have to look at the rule to see how it's defined in order to determine if there's been a violation. If the story had said: "X coach promises football player financial aid, no tutition required" I'd be calling for a major investigation. But, so far, no illegal recruiting violation has been alleged or reported.