John Schuerholz Out In Atlanta

[Kingfish Stevens]

Turner set a cap. Plain and simple and if you look back at their payroll that did go over a certain number and I'll have to find it.

 

 

 

The main reason he is leaving though is there are rumors that Liberty Media will mandate a deep cut in this year's $89 million payroll.

That could be difficult since the club is already committed to John Smoltz ($14 million), Tim Hudson ($13 million), Chipper Jones ($12.3 million) and Mike Hampton ($15 million) in 2008 and also needs to sign Mark Teixeira to a long-term deal to justify trading top prospect Jarrod Saltalamachia to get him.

 

 

Regardless of what might have been said, Turner's "cap" was flexible. He was willing to spend more if he could be convinced that the end would likely justify the means. The present owners are not so willing and no one knows it better than does Schuerholz. In reality, it could be said that much of the Braves's success was because of Turner's pocketbook and good scouting.

 

Your post seems to suggest that Schuerholz, rather than facing a tough challenge, chose to move upstairs. I would agree. Rather than tackling the situation head on, he chose to preserve his "reputation". While most would probably do the same, a "great" GM wouldn't. He would accept the challenge.

 

You are correct in your analysis of the problem facing the Braves. The Hampton fiasco was a monumental error that has negatively effected the

Braves for years. When you applaud Schuerholz for the moves that worked, you need to factor in the recurring devastation of the Hampton move.

 

You are also correct that the Braves can only justify the Teixeira trade by signing him to a longterm contract. However, agreeing to pay a first baseman between $15 and $20 million a year may not be wise. Also, it must be remembered that the Braves did not just give up Saltalamacchia. They also gave up their top two minor league prospects (Andrus and Harrison) as well as #8 (Jones) and #13 (Feliz) (both pitchers). In other words, the Teixeira trade may well turn out to be the biggest steal of the decade- for Texas.

[westsider]

Regardless of what might have been said, Turner's "cap" was flexible. He was willing to spend more if he could be convinced that the end would likely justify the means. The present owners are not so willing and no one knows it better than does Schuerholz. In reality, it could be said that much of the Braves's success was because of Turner's pocketbook and good scouting.

I remember a lot of talk that Time Warner was cutting the payroll after they bought the team from Turner.

Your post seems to suggest that Schuerholz, rather than facing a tough challenge, chose to move upstairs. I would agree. Rather than tackling the situation head on, he chose to preserve his "reputation". While most would probably do the same, a "great" GM wouldn't. He would accept the challenge.

Or maybe it's just like he said ... he's tired of the GM grind after 25 years of it and at age 67.

You are correct in your analysis of the problem facing the Braves. The Hampton fiasco was a monumental error that has negatively effected the Braves for years. When you applaud Schuerholz for the moves that worked, you need to factor in the recurring devastation of the Hampton move.

From a money standpoint, perhaps ... not from a talent-given-up standpoint.

You are also correct that the Braves can only justify the Teixeira trade by signing him to a longterm contract. However, agreeing to pay a first baseman between $15 and $20 million a year may not be wise. Also, it must be remembered that the Braves did not just give up Saltalamacchia. They also gave up their top two minor league prospects (Andrus and Harrison) as well as #8 (Jones) and #13 (Feliz) (both pitchers). In other words, the Teixeira trade may well turn out to be the biggest steal of the decade- for Texas.

As I pointed out at the time of the trade and again in this thread, Schuerholz has rarely traded a minor leaguer that amounted to much as a major leaguer. Maybe the prospects will work out for Texas, maybe they won't. But you have to give up something of value to get a guy like Teixeira.

[stick1]

I don't see how 14 Division Championships in 17 seasons doesn't amount to success even if they only won 1 World Series? Obviously it would have been great to win more but that is the model of consistancy when it comes to winning. I couldn't imagine the Reds winning that many Division titles. It gets frustrating not winning it all every year but there are a lot more ups than downs.

[Kingfish Stevens]

I remember a lot of talk that Time Warner was cutting the payroll after they bought the team from Turner.

Or maybe it's just like he said ... he's tired of the GM grind after 25 years of it and at age 67.

From a money standpoint, perhaps ... not from a talent-given-up standpoint.

As I pointed out at the time of the trade and again in this thread, Schuerholz has rarely traded a minor leaguer that amounted to much as a major leaguer. Maybe the prospects will work out for Texas, maybe they won't. But you have to give up something of value to get a guy like Teixeira.

 

Time Warner did slash the payroll. And, from all indications Liberty may do even more. When Schuerholz had the purse strings of the Yankees and RedSox, he did well. When he had to work from the middle of the pack; but still far from the Pirates, Royals, and Marlins of the world; he didn't fair near as well. I have posted the downward spiral of the team since 1999. When he put it all together, Schuerholz figured his 67 years of age was a material matter.

 

You are correct that you cannot truly analyze a trade until it all plays out. The Teixeira trade is a good example. The Braves, by their own admission, traded the future in order to win now. The first evidence is in and the trade did not produce a berth in the playoffs. The team's winning percentage was just about the same before the trade as after the trade.

 

Teixeira produced some good numbers. However, if you examine the timing of that production, you will conclude that his efforts resulted in no more wins than his failures in the clutch resulted in losses. In other words, impressive numbers which were a wash in wins and losses.

 

Now the Braves have Teixeira for one more year. If the trade is good, we should see Teixeira lead the team to the playoffs. Personally, I'll bet otherwise. Also the Braves get to bargain with Scott Boros who will demand an obscene contract for Teixeira to remain a Brave after next season. With their budget, the Braves cannot afford to empty the coffers for a first baseman (cheaper but productive first basemen are not rare).

 

As for what the Braves sent to the Rangers, time will tell. However, the odds of at least one or two of these guys succeeding longterm are very likely. For example, is there any team who wouldn't like to have Saltalamacchia who is just 22 and is a switch hitting catcher with good defensive skills and excellent power potential? And, two of the three pitching prospects are lefthanded (a rare commodity) including Harrison who was the Braves #2 prospect just behind the 18 year old shortstop Andrus (He hit .300 after the trade because he got out of the pitching dominated Carolina League).

 

I think that it is obvious that the odds were clearly in favor of the Rangers prior to the trade and, so far, the happenings since the trade support that conclusion.

[westsider]

Time Warner did slash the payroll. And, from all indications Liberty may do even more. When Schuerholz had the purse strings of the Yankees and RedSox, he did well. When he had to work from the middle of the pack; but still far from the Pirates, Royals, and Marlins of the world; he didn't fair near as well. I have posted the downward spiral of the team since 1999. When he put it all together, Schuerholz figured his 67 years of age was a material matter.

So ... he won when he had the resources of the big boys. He continued to win most of the time even when he didn't.

 

My, what a horrible job he did.

 

The last statement shows your bias against Schuerholz knows no bounds ... I guess you're reading his mind now.

You are correct that you cannot truly analyze a trade until it all plays out. The Teixeira trade is a good example. The Braves, by their own admission, traded the future in order to win now. The first evidence is in and the trade did not produce a berth in the playoffs. The team's winning percentage was just about the same before the trade as after the trade.

 

Teixeira produced some good numbers. However, if you examine the timing of that production, you will conclude that his efforts resulted in no more wins than his failures in the clutch resulted in losses. In other words, impressive numbers which were a wash in wins and losses.

 

Now the Braves have Teixeira for one more year. If the trade is good, we should see Teixeira lead the team to the playoffs. Personally, I'll bet otherwise. Also the Braves get to bargain with Scott Boros who will demand an obscene contract for Teixeira to remain a Brave after next season. With their budget, the Braves cannot afford to empty the coffers for a first baseman (cheaper but productive first basemen are not rare).

 

As for what the Braves sent to the Rangers, time will tell. However, the odds of at least one or two of these guys succeeding longterm are very likely. For example, is there any team who wouldn't like to have Saltalamacchia who is just 22 and is a switch hitting catcher with good defensive skills and excellent power potential? And, two of the three pitching prospects are lefthanded (a rare commodity) including Harrison who was the Braves #2 prospect just behind the 18 year old shortstop Andrus (He hit .300 after the trade because he got out of the pitching dominated Carolina League).

 

I think that it is obvious that the odds were clearly in favor of the Rangers prior to the trade and, so far, the happenings since the trade support that conclusion.

Again, your opinion is so colored by your anti-Schuerholz bias.

 

First of all, the Braves had a decision to make between Saltalamacchia and McCann because they can't play both ... they chose McCann, a defensible position.

 

And the trade hasn't worked out all that great for the Rangers at all, at this point. They have Saltalamacchia for the future, and I like him, but he has to get the job done and we won't know if it did until the other guys' careers progress.

 

Again, Schuerholz's record in trading away farmhands is pretty darn good ... he's rarely been burned.

[Kingfish Stevens]

Goodbye, westsider. This is obviously an exercise in futility. Let's just see how it all works out a few years down the line.

[westsider]

This is obviously an exercise in futility.

Especially when your points keep getting refuted.

[Kingfish Stevens]

As they say,westsider, ignorance is bliss. Enjoy the bliss.

[westsider]

Ignorance? What about my points deserves that assessment?

 

I don't believe Schuerholz did a particularly good job this year. Scott Thorman at 1B? Buddy Carlyle and Lance Cormier in the rotation during a penant race?

 

Maybe Schuerholz realized it, and conceded that at his age, it's time to make room for someone else.

 

None of that changes my view (and that of 99 percent of baseball people) that Schuerholz had a very successful tenure in Atlanta.