1 hour ago, DearToday said:

Imagine how many 4A schools would be petitioning to play up in 5A if that were still possible. 

Boyle County, Paducah Tilghman, Covington Catholic, Highlands, Corbin, Johnson Central, Ashland, and Franklin County. Murderers row. Not to mention 6 of those teams named are in the East. 

I think these guys are going to have two battles in both 25 and 26. Should be very competitive games.  

5 hours ago, KYfootballguy said:

Poor Western and Thomas Nelson. Hard to see either ever making the playoffs in a district like that and almost guarantees a losing season unless things really shift in a short amount of time. almost seems unfair to those kids

It is things like this that makes me wish we would do away with districts. Let teams form league/conferences. Find some way similar to other states to qualify for the playoffs. Some districts almost create a death sentence for programs. 

16 hours ago, barrel said:

It is things like this that makes me wish we would do away with districts. Let teams form league/conferences. Find some way similar to other states to qualify for the playoffs. Some districts almost create a death sentence for programs. 

I've posted my proposed plan on here a few times but in a nutshell, I think teams should be "districted" within their basketball regions. Essentially, the 5 biggest schools in the region are one district, the next five are a second, and the smallest five a third. Obviously that would have to be adjusted some based on the number of teams in a region and the size of the schools.

Then use some type of rating system (not the RPI but maybe something Calpreps-ish?) to pick the 192 best teams. Divide those by their enrollment for that year into 6 groups of 32, seed them, and those are your classes. You might not be in the same class every season , but you would always be placed with 31 other schools that are close to you in enrollment.

That would keep teams from being placed into districts that stretch halfway across the state and it would assure schools of 4-5 games (2-3 at home) against local opponents that are traditional rivals you play every year in basketball, baseball, softball, volleyball, etc.

Simple and direct

That works in most instances 

SALUTE!

1 hour ago, gchs_uk9 said:

I've posted my proposed plan on here a few times but in a nutshell, I think teams should be "districted" within their basketball regions. Essentially, the 5 biggest schools in the region are one district, the next five are a second, and the smallest five a third. Obviously that would have to be adjusted some based on the number of teams in a region and the size of the schools.

Then use some type of rating system (not the RPI but maybe something Calpreps-ish?) to pick the 192 best teams. Divide those by their enrollment for that year into 6 groups of 32, seed them, and those are your classes. You might not be in the same class every season , but you would always be placed with 31 other schools that are close to you in enrollment.

That would keep teams from being placed into districts that stretch halfway across the state and it would assure schools of 4-5 games (2-3 at home) against local opponents that are traditional rivals you play every year in basketball, baseball, softball, volleyball, etc.

If only this would have been the KHSAA idea before you shared it!

19 hours ago, barrel said:

It is things like this that makes me wish we would do away with districts. Let teams form league/conferences. Find some way similar to other states to qualify for the playoffs. Some districts almost create a death sentence for programs. 

Completely do away with districts. Ohio has classes, but no districts and still have old school conferences. Let programs schedule how they see fit for what's best for them and their program. If you think you have a legitimate shot to make a run? Schedule tougher. If you have no business going to the playoffs outside of maybe getting past the first round (in the current set up)? Schedule lighter.

The fact of the matter is, there are only eight teams at the most each year, in every class that have a legit chance at winning the whole thing as is and if we are being completely honest with ourselves, it's more like half of that, or yes, even less).

Either way, do away with districts. Using the '25 calendar:

• 7/28- 1st Day of Practice (here is a shocker....that's also about the time that most all college levels begin their practices. "What? (not you @barrel, but those gasping at the first thought of this) you mean wait until then like they do?" (I know. I should be fit for a straight jacket with that crazy thought).
• 9/5- Labor Day Weekend- Week 1 (like 95% of the entire college football world & now I'm really starting to sound like some loony tune)
• 9/12- Week 2 (Guess who doesn't even start until this week? The highest playing level of the sport in the entire world. See, I'm really talking out of my skull now. Blasphemy, I know.)
• 9/19- Week 3
• 9/26- Week 4
• 10/3- Week 5
• 10/10- Week 6
• 10/17- Week 7
• 10/24- Week 9
• 10/31- Week 10
• 11/7- Week 11
• 11/14- Week 12
• 11/21- Round 1/Region Finals & for those that didn't make the playoffs? Let's say teams 9-16 based off RPI, CalPreps, whatever computer system, etc)? Those 8 for each class get to play in a "bowl" game.
• 11/28- Round 2/Semis
• 12/5-12/6- State Finals (and, before anybody starts talking about the State Finals needing to be on Thanksgiving Weekend as if that happened last year or recent memory? It's been since the late 80's that they stopped being played then, some 35 years ago or thereabouts)

By doing this?

1) Even those that don't make the playoffs get 11 games, as most all do now & those in 5 or 6 team districts that don't make it in the current set up would get one more than they do now.

2) The "Y'all have a good squad, but you aren't winning the thing" get 12 games, which, going off the current set up is where the majority of their season(s) end as is.

3) The game becomes (wait for it, more crazy talk coming here) the fall sport it was intended to be, and for some odd reason(s), the way the collegiate levels and NFL have always chose to play it.

4) More kids will come out (start date).

5) Programs will also able to fill a full staff + less head coaching turnover due to not losing all of their sanity (start date + deep down knowing they aren't taking an '88 Dotson, no matter how much time, work and effort you put into it, to the Dayton 500).

I keep saying it - Promotion and Relegation system, that is what they should do.  They never will do it, but I think that would revolutionize how well this stuff works.  Let teams find their levels, make it performance based, not exclusively based on factors that aren't necessarily the only ones that matter.  We've seen plenty of large schools that fail (how long has it been since Henry Clay was good?), and plenty of smaller schools that can really compete with the big boys (Mayfield for example).  Large schools with 30 players on their team.  Small schools with 70.  Clearly, factors other than populace come into being.

Now, you'd have to figure out some method of determining who the best and worst in the classes are, but every two years, take the top 4 in classes 1A-5A and promote them, and the bottom 4 in classes 2A-6A and relegate them.  I believe you'd see a world of difference in how some teams would compete, and essentially 6A would become the best of the best (not totally far off how things are viewed now).

1 hour ago, DragonFire said:

Now, you'd have to figure out some method of determining who the best and worst in the classes are, but every two years, take the top 4 in classes 1A-5A and promote them, and the bottom 4 in classes 2A-6A and relegate them.  I believe you'd see a world of difference in how some teams would compete, and essentially 6A would become the best of the best (not totally far off how things are viewed now).

Indiana does something like this. It is called the "success quotient" and the more success you have you move up in class. There are some restrictions on it, however.

I also like the Florida plan, which in part divides schools into classes based on population density (rural, urban, metropolitan) which could work in Kentucky.

I've also heard several proposals than include things like free and reduced lunch in the school and other demographic calculators.

Bottom line, we continue to do things the same exact way and the same schools win everything. I like your mention of a school like Henry Clay, who would benefit from a drop down. What about a school like Ohio County or Muhlenberg County? Large enrollment, but very rural. They'd be much better served in Class 2A or 3A than having to get routed by Bowling Green and Owensboro every year.

1 hour ago, DragonFire said:

I keep saying it - Promotion and Relegation system, that is what they should do.  They never will do it, but I think that would revolutionize how well this stuff works.  Let teams find their levels, make it performance based, not exclusively based on factors that aren't necessarily the only ones that matter.  We've seen plenty of large schools that fail (how long has it been since Henry Clay was good?), and plenty of smaller schools that can really compete with the big boys (Mayfield for example).  Large schools with 30 players on their team.  Small schools with 70.  Clearly, factors other than populace come into being.

Now, you'd have to figure out some method of determining who the best and worst in the classes are, but every two years, take the top 4 in classes 1A-5A and promote them, and the bottom 4 in classes 2A-6A and relegate them.  I believe you'd see a world of difference in how some teams would compete, and essentially 6A would become the best of the best (not totally far off how things are viewed now).

The problem with relegation is that outside of your top teams year in and year out (of which there are really only a handful in each class) relegation/promotion always take place after the fact. And for most teams, the good years are cyclical. Teams might have their "great year" which might happen every 4 or 5 years (or more), and then be forced to play up over their heads for a few years right after the "great group" graduates,  before getting relegated. The reverse is true as well. Teams have their down period of a few year, then get relegated and have a big year playing down. It also could create geographic placement issues (which obviously could happen under any system). All in all, I don't think it really solves the problem.

1 minute ago, rjs4470 said:

The problem with relegation is that outside of your top teams year in and year out (of which there are really only a handful in each class) relegation/promotion always take place after the fact. And for most teams, the good years are cyclical. Teams might have their "great year" which might happen every 4 or 5 years (or more), and then be forced to play up over their heads for a few years right after the "great group" graduates,  before getting relegated. The reverse is true as well. Teams have their down period of a few year, then get relegated and have a big year playing down. It also could create geographic placement issues (which obviously could happen under any system). All in all, I don't think it really solves the problem.

The suggestion is for every other year - mostly for scheduling issues that would arise with single year relegation - which I think would help smooth out what you're saying.  For sure, there are going to be exceptions, but experiencing something negative (or overly positive) for two years sorta pales in comparison to the hellscape a lot of these teams deal with now, where they are stuck indefinitely where they don't belong.

3 minutes ago, gchs_uk9 said:

Bottom line, we continue to do things the same exact way...

I'll add: not every message board post is worthy of changing rules, but I do wonder if the people from the schools and the people at the KHSAA ever seek out any other opinions on things like classification or is it vacuum/cocoon thinking? I know they did a survey of other state associations and how often they realign, but did they actually look at how they align? These aren't exactly life and death situations but it would be interesting to see some out-of-the-box thinking from time to time.

On 2/20/2024 at 6:09 PM, gchs_uk9 said:

Same district as 2023-24, with the exception of losing Carroll County and adding St. Henry.

I believe they gave up 3 points total in district play this past season.

16 hours ago, gchs_uk9 said:

some out-of-the-box thinking

And KHSAA don't really go hand in hand

Bump.