Officials Taking Over Ballgames

[oldonetechnique]

If your a good official then you should be respected and left alone, if your not, you should be haggled. What is fair game for athletes and coaches is fair game for officials, it is a performance based job no matter how much it pays. As far as coaches and players whining or complaining it is part of your job there is a line to be drawn, but just like athletes, your problems at home, and your mood have to be checked at the door.

 

Now I dont support officials getting threats or cursed out, but there is a level of distain that should be tolerated.

[doomer]

One part of this post will urge you all to go to the girls forum and read a few posts about officials there.

 

As to officials "taking over games": Being an ex official and still training them today, I can say with relative ease that yes, there are times that officials call way too much in a game. But, it really depends on when the calls are made. I have posted this before and now it is as true as it was before; Womens college officials call the game fairly well most of the time. Mens college officials are starting to get into the system of calling contact that needs to be called to "CONTROL" the game. I have seen more "player control" (ie charges for all you bleacher bums!) fouls called this season already in the few mens games I have watched than in any other season in the past 5 years. Finally they are getting the message that when two players hit the floor, sometimes you have to call a foul!

 

There is a difference between "taking over" a game and "controling" a game. If calls that need to be made are made early, coaches and players have a chance to adjust to that particular crew. Yes, you will find variance in how different crews officiate games. No way to avoid that, due to the fact that some officials just will not change the way they do things for anyone. Yea, that's bad and we need get them out, but that is a supervisors problem (in both HS and college). In HS, you do not have near the officiating talent pool to choose from. Yes, there are good officials in every region, but in the smaller associations they are few and far between. So coaches have to deal with different crews just like they deal with different teams; kind of like the "Forrest Gump" theory. Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know what your gonna get! Some crews will call hand checks and so called "ticky-tack" stuff....some will not. Sometimes they have to pass on that stuff so as to get other more serious violations and keep the game under control.

 

Some games the officials have to "control" the game by calling 50 fouls (my personal best for a game was 57 in HS, 65 in college - the whole crew, not me personally). Those kind of games no matter what you do, teams will not stop fouling and if you do not keep calling the fouls, fights break out ect. Then things get really ugly. So when you see officials "taking over" a game, maybe they have to. Maybe the players just are not as athletically gifted as some others and they just have to keep calling the fouls due to that lack of talent. Think about that next time you see officials "controlling" a game!

 

One other thing about the money issue.....more money is not the answer. That would keep some of the "bottom feeders" around. They are just there for the money anyway and it shows most nights! Do not get me wrong, officials deserve all the money they can get, it is just not the best answer for this particular issue!

 

:dancingpa

 

 

Good post in my opinion. Also, there are coaches who coach the type of play - a la Nolan Richardson - so they foul the heck out of a team knowing the refs. won't call all of them.

[crimedoc]

Here is a good measuring stick. If every game you go to, one or both coaches are on your tail and every time you blow the whistle the crowd either sighs or moans or yells. You are probably a sub par referee.

 

I wish that more referees were able to communicate better with the coaches and players. You mention the handcheck, tough call to make. Here is how a good official does it. He is coming down the floor and says to the defender, watch your hands, watch your hands, if he doesnt move his hands. Call the foul. I bet he doesnt do it next time. Kind of like the stove is hot dont touch it. Ouch that burns, told you not to touch it mentality.

 

Officials are few and far between these days. I have seen some good ones this year, but more worse than good. The game is not all rule oriented. Pay has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with being a good official. There are coaches who make next to nothing who are quality coaches and there are absolutely coaches who are well paid and not worth their weight in dirt.

[True blue (and gold)]

From what I have seen in boys basketball, it (the handcheck) is a difficult call to make. The players are so athletic and able to withstand more contact, hence the problem. I think it takes a really quality official to determing what has put a player at a disadvantage and what has not.

 

I also agree that officials would love to "let the kids play", but we all know that sometimes they just don't want to. They want to be lazy and play with their hands and not their feet! They want to set screens with their elbows and end up hitting someone in the mouth with it. If those situations are not handled properly, then you get your "out of control" games. Officials love to let the kids decide the games; it is unfortunate that sometimes they cannot.

 

Great post!

[The Ghost]

Here is a good measuring stick. If every game you go to, one or both coaches are on your tail and every time you blow the whistle the crowd either sighs or moans or yells. You are probably a sub par referee.

 

I wish that more referees were able to communicate better with the coaches and players. You mention the handcheck, tough call to make. Here is how a good official does it. He is coming down the floor and says to the defender, watch your hands, watch your hands, if he doesnt move his hands. Call the foul. I bet he doesnt do it next time. Kind of like the stove is hot dont touch it. Ouch that burns, told you not to touch it mentality.

 

Officials are few and far between these days. I have seen some good ones this year, but more worse than good. The game is not all rule oriented. Pay has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with being a good official. There are coaches who make next to nothing who are quality coaches and there are absolutely coaches who are well paid and not worth their weight in dirt.

 

Maybe the last three games that had officials that have a hard time tying his/her shoelaces to start the game? Maybe you are the better official and the teams are just not use to seeing quality?

 

I always tell people I train to blow the whistle first, explain to the coach later. Talking to players is a good way to let three fouls go and blow the forth. Causes too many problems. Not to say every situation is like that, but say I have an early 3 second call (w/o talking to the players), do you really think that player will stand around in there again? He/she is more likely to do it again if one talks with the voice. If one talks with the whistle, players tend to listen more!

 

As to the rules: Officials are given a rule book, which covers more guidelines for certain things than absolutes. They are given points of emphasis to help them understand how the game SHOULD be played. Then the officials have to use judgement, mechanics and hustle to determine fouls, violations ect.

 

You are correct about the pay. Higher pay means nothing in getting quality.

 

:walk:

[Tough as Nails]

I think one problem with officials is that they are not on the same page. One will call every ticky tack foul and the other's philosophy is "no blood, no foul."

[BogeyMan]

It is just like every other job. There are good ones and some bad ones. You can't play without them. Complaining does not change them, so we might as well get used to it and hope you get more good than bad.

[1owlzfan]

I don't know where this post is coming from, but after reading a little about a few recent games, I had to comment on this. Let me know how you guys feel.

 

I was reading about the closing minute of the Jackson City/Owsley Co. game the other night, and I saw where Jackson had a lead of 7 with 34 seconds left to play in the game. A player received a technical after whining about not getting a foul called. I know little about these 2 teams and nothing about this game (other than what I've read, I wasn't there), but a player receiving a technical with 30 seconds left in a close game seems a little drastic. Was he really that mouthy? It is possible that the player did deserve it, but I'm just tired of officials taking over a game late. I mean, does the official here feel like the player is really trying to show him up?

 

Again, I'd love to know what the young man said. I don't like all the whining and crying I see today from high school athletes, but it does take place, and it happens the entire game. I'm sure that one possession was not the first time on this night that a player whined about a foul call, or lack thereof. I just want some consistency.

 

What do you guys think? Anyone else have any incidents they'd like to share?

 

 

 

I was at this game, and close to the player and ref when this call was made. The young man lost his temper, called the ref a pretty bad name using vulgarity. The young man wasn't cursing under is breath, he was within 5 feet of the ref. This young man, because of his temper, cost Jackson City the game, not the referees. If the referee had not called a technical, this would have looked very bad on him, because this outburst was not whispered, it was heard by many throughout the gym.

[jimmyref]

I know early on at the Brossart/Mason game, Mason got a quick 5 fouls or so called on them to Brossart's zero, of course as the game went on, things did even out.

 

While watching Scott Co at the Beach Ball classic, the announcers were talking about a hand check is never called and should be called a lot more often. So while watching Mason's game I was looking for that and sure enough, both teams did their fair share and nothing was called.

 

As has been stated on here, as long as they are consistent and call things both ways for both teams, I don't mind. It's not related to high school basketball, but I know of a few NFL games were flags are flown because the refs "anticipate" what foul is going to happen instead of waiting to see what's going to happen. I know someone already mentioned anticipated on this thread and I agree 100 percent.

 

More than anything else, I would just rather the officials let the kids play. Obviously you want to keep the game under control, but let the teams decide who is better.

This is a recipe for failure as teams will go as far as you let them. 2 of the points of emphesis this year is to 1)clean up the rough play and 2)to call fouls at the end of the game correctly. The clinics show how games get out of control and what you don"t want is the reach in becomes the grab becomes the shove becomes the jab becomes the bench clearing brawl.

 

Some teams are purposely using 2 officials instead of 3 just to get more physical games to their advantage. The rules are written to create a balance of offense/defense, and rough play gives an advantage to one team usually. Think if you were playing the Pistons of Laimbeer and Isiah Thomas and Rodman. Your team is Kobe, Reggie Miller, Dwayne Wade, Kareem Abdul Jabbar and Dirk Nowitski- all thin superstars. What does Detroit want to do? Bump and grind. Your team wants to run. I don't think you want to let "kids" play!!

 

As to end of game, we had a game this weekend that a team hit a three to cut it to one with 10 seconds left and the trailing team just bear hugged the guy receiving the pass inbounds. That is an intentional foul and the team got 2 shots and the ball. It wasn't popular to the fans because we watch college and pro teams maul each other. But it gives advantage to the defense as it stops all offensive penetration and its ability to run out the clock.

As to the money-go ahead and give me more money first and then I'll decide whether it brings better officiating!!!!

[King Rex]

If your a good official then you should be respected and left alone, if your not, you should be haggled. What is fair game for athletes and coaches is fair game for officials, it is a performance based job no matter how much it pays. As far as coaches and players whining or complaining it is part of your job there is a line to be drawn, but just like athletes, your problems at home, and your mood have to be checked at the door.

 

Now I dont support officials getting threats or cursed out, but there is a level of distain that should be tolerated.

 

 

Well stated. There are many games that I rarely say anything to the refs, there are others, that they get some comments. NEVER, I mean NEVER do I or anyone around me curse at the refs, threaten them, or call them names. Now we do protest calls with boos, whistles, pointing out obvious violations etc. The sign of a good fan is one that can accept a good call against his own team. I only protest bad calls. There are times that I am shocked at the call against the OTHER team!! I hate it when it's an obvious blown call and we get the benefit. You know why? The dreaded "make up call" is looming in the next posession. I know it's tough on officials. That's why they get paid!!

Anyone got an easy job? Let me know!

[TaylorMadeBoy]

I was at this game, and close to the player and ref when this call was made. The young man lost his temper, called the ref a pretty bad name using vulgarity. The young man wasn't cursing under is breath, he was within 5 feet of the ref. This young man, because of his temper, cost Jackson City the game, not the referees. If the referee had not called a technical, this would have looked very bad on him, because this outburst was not whispered, it was heard by many throughout the gym.

:thumb: You can't directly yell at a ref like he did and expect not to get a "T" this was the player not to ref!

[crimedoc]

Tell you what ghost. I beleive that you can call early to prevent late. How about refs not calling early then having to correct later? Then you have 20+ foul second halfs. Those types of halfs never let teams get the wheels moving. They hurt more than they help. Here is my point:

 

Kids these days are much more physically talented and have a much higher basketball IQ than players have ever had. The game has changed enough to where you can talk to these kids and they can respond from the support from the referees. At every pregame half court chat, you always hear, who is the speaking captain? That is good and it has its purpose but I just feel like good, no excuse me, great officials have the ability to communicate with the 10 players, two coaches, other officials, and the scorekeeper all in the same game. You have some officials who think that it is their job to control the game. WRONG!!!! Your job is to CALL the game. Get with the program the players not even the coaches, but players control the game.

[halftime]

Tell you what ghost. I beleive that you can call early to prevent late. How about refs not calling early then having to correct later? Then you have 20+ foul second halfs. Those types of halfs never let teams get the wheels moving. They hurt more than they help. Here is my point:

 

Kids these days are much more physically talented and have a much higher basketball IQ than players have ever had. The game has changed enough to where you can talk to these kids and they can respond from the support from the referees. At every pregame half court chat, you always hear, who is the speaking captain? That is good and it has its purpose but I just feel like good, no excuse me, great officials have the ability to communicate with the 10 players, two coaches, other officials, and the scorekeeper all in the same game. You have some officials who think that it is their job to control the game. WRONG!!!! Your job is to CALL the game. Get with the program the players not even the coaches, but players control the game.

 

Great Post!!! In the 16th region especially, some (not all) officials seem to be on some kind of ego or power trip. If a coach questions a call, it's like a personal affront to them. Instead of just saying "That's the way I saw it, coach", they look to "T" them up.

It is up to them to CALL the game, not CONTROL it.

[crimedoc]

Its funny you say that freethrow about the 16th region. I coach in the 16th and that is exactly who I was referring to. Glad somebody else sees it that way.

 

As a coach I cant ague with a guy who says just what you did: "thats what I saw coach." Alrighty then, moving on. I had a referee the other night make a call then justify it to me by saying, "he's just big!" He's big, is there something that you or I can do about that???????? Hello.

[True blue (and gold)]

Strangely, I could not find "being big" as a violation in the rulebook.

 

The 8th region has some of the same problems (with officials on ego trips or trying to "command" the game), though less this year than in past years, I believe.