Taking a Knee - Now What?

[B-Ball-fan]

Bill Gates couldn't afford that! :banana:

 

I'm not sure what's going on, but your dancing banana isn't dancing. Hmmm :idunno:

 

Yep, I've singlehandedly caused a world byte shortage by using far more than my fair share. Mr. Gates is now scrambling for an alternative solution to this problem that I have created.

[Run To State]

I'm not sure what's going on, but your dancing banana isn't dancing. Hmmm :idunno:

 

 

Excuse me? :wideyed:

[B-Ball-fan]

Excuse me? :wideyed:

 

Ha Ha....for whatever reason while even the arms of my "I dunno" guy are shrugging, the dancing banana that you posted isn't moving . :idunno:

[Run To State]

Ha Ha....for whatever reason while even the arms of my "I dunno" guy are shrugging, the dancing banana that you posted isn't moving . :idunno:

 

Sorry, I couldn't resist the temptation for a juvenile comment.

 

It's working for me, must be your computer.

[TAC]

I'm not sure what's going on, but your dancing banana isn't dancing. Hmmm :idunno:

 

Yep, I've singlehandedly caused a world byte shortage by using far more than my fair share. Mr. Gates is now scrambling for an alternative solution to this problem that I have created.

 

I'm guessing you are not a Twitter fan. They limit the amount of characters you can post. LOL

[B-Ball-fan]

I'm guessing you are not a Twitter fan. They limit the amount of characters you can post. LOL

 

No doubt.

 

Drives me nuts to have to carefully calculate my wording and still try to manage getting my thoughts across. They're talking about increasing it, yet I fear that it still won't be enough. :irked:

[B-Ball-fan]

Sorry, I couldn't resist the temptation for a juvenile comment.

 

It's working for me, must be your computer.

 

Probably is my computer, but nonetheless your dancing banana sounds personal and really just none of my business. :lol2:

[oldgrappler]

I completely agree that going forward we need for the facts to be straight, but I hardly feel that "changing the topic" from racism to racism is "changing the topic" at all. Isn't this really the common denominator regarding just what it is we're talking about here?

 

You're working hard to split hairs to suggest that we can only discuss that which you are more specifically opining about as if my contribution is running off with a completely different subject, which it most certainly is not.

 

You have presented study results that would suggest that there really isn't any high incidences of cops shooting blacks, and while certainly helpful and enlightening information I'm not here to support or refute these statistics because I can't.

 

I see that your focus is to hold Kap to his accusations and want to focus solely on that, but that's not what I'm completely focused on.

 

Not every cop, not every citizen, no matter their race is a saint, nor is every one of them a sinner. There are cases where cops have no other choice, there are cases where they do, but shoot anyhow. The fault can't completely be pinned on anyone specifically as there are just too many cases of this and that with various circumstances.

 

I hear what you're saying that passing wrong information is dangerous and irresponsible, yet I'm not comfortable still that since your statistics don't show that magic number that you weren't comfortable with me suggesting, that we can simply conclude that there is no problem.

 

I mean no disrespect, but you seem intent on looking for that "Ah ha gotcha" evidence that would completely devalue the concerns that Kap was hoping to express, that I imagine he arrived at by what he was seeing in the news just like all of us, and it effected him to the point that he wanted to take a stand about it.

 

I'll guess without hesitation that he personally didn't do any studies on it himself, and was at the mercy of the information that was presented to him, and then commented accordingly. It would be my estimation that there was no intent on his part to mislead or misrepresent the facts as he knew them.

 

Just like you I am concerned about accurate information, but from the results of your study you appear to be content with categorizing things in the "problem box", or the "no problem box", and have concluded that this topic belongs in the "no problem box", and like I had already said I'm just not comfortable with that assessment, just as I'm not comfortable with misleading information.

 

If you're holding Kap specifically to his comments related to police shootings, then it would be in my estimation that you are missing much of the bigger picture of his concerns that go far deeper than just that topic alone, and is why I have expanded on the topic of racism that you consider to be a change of the topic, which I'll contest is not in the least.

 

I feel that your concerns for our society are genuine, and that you are a unique person with impressive impeccable attention for details, and well thought out objective logic that displays an incredible level of intelligence so much that I would never dare imply anything short of you likely being a genius to some measurable level.

 

I really have no intent on poo-pooing away your statistics and concerns of unwarranted social issues that lead to problems where there should be none, but while it's important for everyone to hear the most true and accurate information, I personally don't even need news reports to see with my own two eyes and ears that our culture, though strides have been made, is far from getting our issues with racism right.

 

Good lord there is still a huge sector that if not a full blown racist, they still suffer from some serious prejudicial problems. Still though the presence of the full blown examples is highly disturbing and saddens me terribly to have to realize that there are really still in 2017 people of this extreme level of hatred.

 

One thing that is evident to so many is that the so many others who don't see a problem, or resent the suggestion that there is one, are some of the ones more than not are the problem, or at least contribute to it from their inability to acknowledge it.

 

This whole kneeling thing has ignited this discussion, and while the police shooting topic was a catalyst for it, it is not exclusively and specifically only what this is all about. Your preoccupation with it specifically tells me that this is part of the matter that you might be missing.

 

Don't feel alone as there's been a lot about this matter that a lot people have been missing, which is quite evident with how many people have made comments that make this ever so painfully clear.

 

If they believe that this was all about an intent to disrespect the flag then I can understand their objection, yet it wasn't while so many continue to paint that it was no matter how many times they've been told otherwise, and while obsessing over that which it wasn't they did everything imaginable to avoid ever listening to just what was the issue, and even if they heard it they immediately went into defense mode denying that a problem exist.

 

Though the statistics that you have don't support high numbers of cops shooting blacks, we still very much has a racism problem in our country, and all that has been going on as of late makes it clear that it's time serious discussion be had, and that great strides are made going forward with the hope of making the future a brighter one.

 

When I began this thread "Taking a Knee - Now What?" my intent was to discuss that it was time to have that discussion and to brainstorm for ways that we as a nation can honestly move forward to have this discussion. Yes indeed when doing so facts and honesty must be present, but denying any problem exist IMO is just not facing it honestly.

 

@B-Ball,-fan, sorry I don't have much time today to continue the discussion we are having. The silver lining is that maybe this will be short, or shorter, oh, who am I trying to kid?!

 

First off, you are free to disagree with me about what specific topic is important, to you, to discuss. I am sorry I was so intent on discussing the topic that I thought was important and so I tried to limit the discussion to that issue, the issue first presented by Kap, though that has been diffused by subsequent events.

 

I have been easing into this discussion, saying as much as I thought I could, saving more for later because this could be viewed as a politcal discussion and I am trying not to get it shut down. I finally got around to just saying that the police are not killing innocent black men in the streets in racist aggression. For me that is the main point. I do not mean to imply that NO racism occurs, or that current racism is harmless to minorities. I wish every minority to please forgive me if you feel i have said racism does not exist or that what racism is out there is not detrimental in many ways. And please, B-B-fan, don't think I am a genius or even all that intelligent. I am flattered but not even close to what you attribute to me. I do get something stuck in my craw and tend to focus on it. The reason I am trying to keep to this one topic on police shootings is because on this topic I think it is dangerous to perpetuate a false narrative and this is the one that has captured the nation's attention thanks to Kap and now, our soft-spoken President Also, it is too easy to get a topic splattered out in a forum. Discussing racism in general and other forms that it takes today are all worthy topics for discussion. I just am trying to stay focused here. In the past, when these threads were introduced, I suggested one way to combat racism is to form genuine friendships with people who are outside of your group. It is harder to hold to prejudices when you invite a person and his/her spouse to your house for dinner and your children play together and become friends, too, and the invitation is reciprocated. Then injustices surrounding race become personal.

 

Now the point I want to stick to is that the police are not the enemies of African-Americans the way they are portrayed in the media. The number of innocent black males shot by the police in a year is the same number that one may expect to be struck by lightning in a year. Hardly an epidemic and hardly enough to be able to say that racist police are getting away with murdering black men. I am disturbed that this assertion is assumed as fact because it could (and has) led to great harm. I believe that credible studies have been done on crime statistics and police action that prove this is false. The study in Houston quoted in the Washington times seems like one that was well-done with indepth research and analysis. Then there are the studies by the FBI. Those studies also are being peer-reviewed and it may turn out that flaws in the method and/or conclusions could yet be found, at which time my conclusions would change. So, I am glad we are discussing it. But I think the conclusions are pretty solid.

 

The import of this information to me, is that people are focused on the wrong problem and therefore will not find solutions to the problems that are causing the most detrimental social ills in society as a whole and in the African-American community in particular. The police are not the enemy of African-Americans. But with all the publicity surrounding police shootings this past couple of years, you would think they are, and the kneeling protests indicates many people actually believe this. I believe this is a story that is purposely ginned up by the media for ratings and to continue a political agenda. No matter how many sensitivity training events and "better-policing methods" events are held across the nation for police officers, the most serious problems facing African-Americans will remain unaffected. BTW, I think it is worthwhile that each police shooting be investigated to see if injustice has occurred. I believe some of them were unjust and those officers should be held accountable. But there isn't a vast problem that is leaving "bodies lying in the streets," to quote Kap. Yes, that is only my opinion based on the facts as I understand them.

 

When you called for a discussion to go beyond the "Kneeling" controversy, I was and am ready to do so. I do not care if Kap kneels. I have feelings about it, but I certainly am over it, in a sense. I thought the starting point should be a discussion surrounding the false narrative concerning Michael Brown and that the police shootings needed addressed because if not, we, as a society and culture, will be trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist and we won't address the problems that severely impact everyday life.

 

There I go again using a "general term" that sounds dismissive. I apologize. So here's my contention, the issues that most harm African-American communities do not have to do with racism. I am not saying racism does not exist or that there is no harm that comes from it, or that it doesn't play a role, or that we should not make every effort to eliminate racism in its many forms. I am for that and against racism. I am only saying that there are issues of greater impact that need addressed, issues like poverty, gangs, unemployment, crime, violent crime, drugs, education, and many social ills. Their causes go far beyond racism but there are ways to address them. These same social ills are faced in my (predominantly white) community, as well. I suspect most of the causes are shared by both communities and therefore, the solutions may also be shared in common. I'd like to see us collaborate and cooperate.

 

I do realize that I am not African-American and I know that this may sound arrogant as if I know better than someone of color what problems they face. I also realize I probably underestimate the effect of racism. Still, with that being said, the underlying causes of the social ills I mentioned are held in common by predominantly white communities and African-American communities, though they are more pronounced among the latter. The reasons they exist and the solutions to them have less to do with race than they do other factors.

 

BTW, I, too, do not have the facility to thoroughly evaluate the studies on race and policing. I have to rely on the conclusions reached by so-called experts. When these studies are peer-reviewed and the conclusions are confirmed or tweaked or critiqued, we have better access to accurate information. However, when the study's methods, data collection, and procedures are described, you and I get some basis to evaluate it. The person who did the study cited by the Washington Post seemed to be very thorough and tried to take into account many variables. He and his researchers spent many hours reading every police report dealing with the topics he was researching trying to assess what really occurred.

[B-Ball-fan]

@B-Ball,-fan, sorry I don't have much time today to continue the discussion we are having. The silver lining is that maybe this will be short, or shorter, oh, who am I trying to kid?!

 

First off, you are free to disagree with me about what specific topic is important, to you, to discuss. I am sorry I was so intent on discussing the topic that I thought was important and so I tried to limit the discussion to that issue, the issue first presented by Kap, though that has been diffused by subsequent events.

 

I have been easing into this discussion, saying as much as I thought I could, saving more for later because this could be viewed as a politcal discussion and I am trying not to get it shut down. I finally got around to just saying that the police are not killing innocent black men in the streets in racist aggression. For me that is the main point. I do not mean to imply that NO racism occurs, or that current racism is harmless to minorities. I wish every minority to please forgive me if you feel i have said racism does not exist or that what racism is out there is not detrimental in many ways. And please, B-B-fan, don't think I am a genius or even all that intelligent. I am flattered but not even close to what you attribute to me. I do get something stuck in my craw and tend to focus on it. The reason I am trying to keep to this one topic on police shootings is because on this topic I think it is dangerous to perpetuate a false narrative and this is the one that has captured the nation's attention thanks to Kap and now, our soft-spoken President Also, it is too easy to get a topic splattered out in a forum. Discussing racism in general and other forms that it takes today are all worthy topics for discussion. I just am trying to stay focused here. In the past, when these threads were introduced, I suggested one way to combat racism is to form genuine friendships with people who are outside of your group. It is harder to hold to prejudices when you invite a person and his/her spouse to your house for dinner and your children play together and become friends, too, and the invitation is reciprocated. Then injustices surrounding race become personal.

 

Now the point I want to stick to is that the police are not the enemies of African-Americans the way they are portrayed in the media. The number of innocent black males shot by the police in a year is the same number that one may expect to be struck by lightning in a year. Hardly an epidemic and hardly enough to be able to say that racist police are getting away with murdering black men. I am disturbed that this assertion is assumed as fact because it could (and has) led to great harm. I believe that credible studies have been done on crime statistics and police action that prove this is false. The study in Houston quoted in the Washington times seems like one that was well-done with indepth research and analysis. Then there are the studies by the FBI. Those studies also are being peer-reviewed and it may turn out that flaws in the method and/or conclusions could yet be found, at which time my conclusions would change. So, I am glad we are discussing it. But I think the conclusions are pretty solid.

 

The import of this information to me, is that people are focused on the wrong problem and therefore will not find solutions to the problems that are causing the most detrimental social ills in society as a whole and in the African-American community in particular. The police are not the enemy of African-Americans. But with all the publicity surrounding police shootings this past couple of years, you would think they are, and the kneeling protests indicates many people actually believe this. I believe this is a story that is purposely ginned up by the media for ratings and to continue a political agenda. No matter how many sensitivity training events and "better-policing methods" events are held across the nation for police officers, the most serious problems facing African-Americans will remain unaffected. BTW, I think it is worthwhile that each police shooting be investigated to see if injustice has occurred. I believe some of them were unjust and those officers should be held accountable. But there isn't a vast problem that is leaving "bodies lying in the streets," to quote Kap. Yes, that is only my opinion based on the facts as I understand them.

 

When you called for a discussion to go beyond the "Kneeling" controversy, I was and am ready to do so. I do not care if Kap kneels. I have feelings about it, but I certainly am over it, in a sense. I thought the starting point should be a discussion surrounding the false narrative concerning Michael Brown and that the police shootings needed addressed because if not, we, as a society and culture, will be trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist and we won't address the problems that severely impact everyday life.

 

There I go again using a "general term" that sounds dismissive. I apologize. So here's my contention, the issues that most harm African-American communities do not have to do with racism. I am not saying racism does not exist or that there is no harm that comes from it, or that it doesn't play a role, or that we should not make every effort to eliminate racism in its many forms. I am for that and against racism. I am only saying that there are issues of greater impact that need addressed, issues like poverty, gangs, unemployment, crime, violent crime, drugs, education, and many social ills. Their causes go far beyond racism but there are ways to address them. These same social ills are faced in my (predominantly white) community, as well. I suspect most of the causes are shared by both communities and therefore, the solutions may also be shared in common. I'd like to see us collaborate and cooperate.

 

I do realize that I am not African-American and I know that this may sound arrogant as if I know better than someone of color what problems they face. I also realize I probably underestimate the effect of racism. Still, with that being said, the underlying causes of the social ills I mentioned are held in common by predominantly white communities and African-American communities, though they are more pronounced among the latter. The reasons they exist and the solutions to them have less to do with race than they do other factors.

 

BTW, I, too, do not have the facility to thoroughly evaluate the studies on race and policing. I have to rely on the conclusions reached by so-called experts. When these studies are peer-reviewed and the conclusions are confirmed or tweaked or critiqued, we have better access to accurate information. However, when the study's methods, data collection, and procedures are described, you and I get some basis to evaluate it. The person who did the study cited by the Washington Post seemed to be very thorough and tried to take into account many variables. He and his researchers spent many hours reading every police report dealing with the topics he was researching trying to assess what really occurred.

 

Awesome post... I appreciate the time and effort that you take to be so thorough, and I'm completely in agreement with what you're saying here, as well as contented in knowing that it's no doubt coming from a good, concerned, and sincere place that honestly wants to see honest, fair, and effective solutions. :thumb:

 

...and BTW I think that you humbly don't give yourself enough credit. You might not see it, but just from reading your posts I think that you'd be hard pressed to find anyone here who doesn't recognize that there's a high level of intelligence on display here. If you're not as you say, I do think that among your palette of talents there's at least an untapped budding gifted writer whose bloom is long overdue. :thumb:

[jericho]

Isn't that same as a racist, if a person is caught saying proud to be white then they are called a white nationalist racist.

 

 

“It was to signify Black Power,” Newton said after the game, which the Panthers won 33-30. “More importantly, I pray every night for God to give me a pinnacle to give people hope. I did it to raise … to show black pride, because I am an African-American

Cam Newton Raises Fist For Black Power After Scoring Touchdown Vs. Patriots