September 21, 201610 yr You would think. Just saw a discussion on Facebook about it, there were on there stating he shouldn't have even been tasered. I agree he shouldn't have been.... Had he not been walking away from a police car and heading to his own. Obviously there wasn't any audio, but it's common sense that you don't do that if you don't have bad intentions or something to hide. Either is putting you on the short end of the stick in the grand scheme of things and most people are smart enough to know that.
September 21, 201610 yr Read this article. Watch the video. Not exactly the same situation but its never a good idea to let someone go back to the car. I agree this is tragic. I dont think race had one thing to do with this. I do think it could have been handled different. But I agree with all the posters who said just do what you are told and this would never have happened. Why Cops Don’t Let Suspects Return To Their Vehicles: The Murder of Kyle Dinkheller – Bearing Arms That's the exact video I was thinking of in this situation. Such a tragic event
September 21, 201610 yr Good shooting or bad shooting it comes down to several factors. Officers need more training on conflict resolution and how to de-escalate a situation verbally. They also need much more training on how to deal with the mentally ill. However, If the deceased was under the influence of a behavior-altering drug such as synthetic marijuana or PCP (as the firing officer suspected when she arrived and he failed to follow initial commands, according to her), the above doesn't apply. And you cannot train for the unpredictable or unknown. Training is done based on known scenarios and known possibilities. Here is an excerpt from the Tulsa World: Attorney Scott Wood, who is representing Officer Shelby, told the Tulsa World the situation unfolded for nearly 2 minutes before the video footage began. Prior to the deadly encounter, Wood said, no one was around when Shelby pulled up. The SUV was straddling the center line with its engine running and doors open, “so she isn’t really sure what’s going on,” Wood said. He said Crutcher repeatedly ignored Shelby’s commands and didn’t respond to her questions. Crutcher, he said, reached toward or into his pockets several times despite Shelby’s telling him not to do so. Wood said Shelby, who has completed drug-recognition expert training, believed that Crutcher was acting like a person who might be under the influence of PCP. Shelby was concerned that Crutcher kept reaching toward his pockets, Wood said, because someone carrying a weapon will often touch it to make sure it’s still there. She drew her handgun after Crutcher walked toward the passenger side of the police car and started to put his hand in his left pocket, Wood said. She then radioed dispatch to report that she was with a person who wasn’t complying with her demands, he said. “He never makes any response to her,” Wood said. Wood said Shelby cleared — or checked — the SUV from the driver’s side and was about to clear the passenger side when Crutcher approached from the east. The backup officer arrived and drew his Taser, Wood said. The Taser deployment and gunshot were simultaneous because both officers perceived the same threat, he said. Here is where it gets murky for the Tulsa PD. If Officer Shelby were the only officer on the scene, based on the video of the shooting, her statements, and her perception of the threat (him reaching into the vehicle), evidence leans more to a justified shooting than unjustified. But when you see three other officers arrive, one draws and approaches with a taser. A second draws something (gun or taser) and approaches. A third doesn't draw anything. He stays behind them. So now the question facing the Tulsa PD is this -- how much of a threat was it that one officer only drew a taser and another didn't draw a weapon at all. Even if Officer Shelby is 100% positive in her thinking that the deceased was indeed a threat, two other officers didn't perceive the threat in the same way. Kind of like people in this thread who view the video and say a.) threat or b.) no threat. Having personally gone through the Drug Recognition Expert program which is roughly a month long class, it's no coincidence she called the drug and it was found in the car. It's a very tough and tedious class. As far as the why the different approaches by the officers, it's common to see a less lethal, lethal and a hands guy approach. The hands guy is to not have a weapon out so his hands are free to go hands on and cuffing.
September 21, 201610 yr Truth and truth. I hate that I hope he was high on PCP but I can't lie. I hope he was high on PCP. Given the way he was acting I'd say it's highly likely. I guess we'll find out soon enough.
September 21, 201610 yr Indeed, you get out of the car, you're not to return till I say go back to your car. To be fair, the video you quoted on is not even in the same ballpark as the video from the Tulsa event. NO! We don't know what exactly happened or what was said, but the video of the tragic event in 98 the pickup trunk was pulled over, speeding, not what one would think would start a gunfight, but he the LEO pulled that guy over. Also, the actions of that guy from the 98 video, and especially after he mentioned that he was a Vietnam Vet, with his actions, without looking back at that event, I'd think that some mental condition was at play. Hopefully the Tulsa event will get cleared up soon, but it's not a good sign when the police chow said that they were disturbed by the shooting. Was she racist? I don't know. Was she scared? I'd say yes. Was she scared when she "maybe" shouldn't be? Possibly.
September 21, 201610 yr To be fair, the video you quoted on is not even in the same ballpark as the video from the Tulsa event. NO! We don't know what exactly happened or what was said, but the video of the tragic event in 98 the pickup trunk was pulled over, speeding, not what one would think would start a gunfight, but he the LEO pulled that guy over. Also, the actions of that guy from the 98 video, and especially after he mentioned that he was a Vietnam Vet, with his actions, without looking back at that event, I'd think that some mental condition was at play. Hopefully the Tulsa event will get cleared up soon, but it's not a good sign when the police chow said that they were disturbed by the shooting. Was she racist? I don't know. Was she scared? I'd say yes. Was she scared when she "maybe" shouldn't be? Possibly. None of which contradicts my thoughts on, if you jump out on me, you'll return to your car when I'm ok with it. Most of the time it's an innocent act. Sometimes it's cause there's something in the car you don't want me knowing about and sometimes the person is looking for a confrontation.
September 21, 201610 yr None of which contradicts my thoughts on, if you jump out on me, you'll return to your car when I'm ok with it. Most of the time it's an innocent act. Sometimes it's cause there's something in the car you don't want me knowing about and sometimes the person is looking for a confrontation. Agreed.
September 21, 201610 yr You can not justify this shooting, period. Still very early to make that statement with any certainty, IMO.
September 21, 201610 yr The article in the OP that clearly no one in this thread read. According to this article a police spokesman said that she did have a taser but didn't use it. It also shows an enlarged picture that seems to show that the driver's side window was up, not down. Tulsa Cop Betty Shelby'''s Past Under Scrutiny After Terence Crutcher Shooting - NBC News
September 21, 201610 yr Just as Mr Crutchers past really doesn't matter neither does Betty Shelby's . You disobey cops orders , you put your self at risk , you go putting your hands where a cop with a weapon drawn cant see them , you increase that risk a bunch . Leave it to NBC to attempt to smear the cop .
September 21, 201610 yr Just as Mr Crutchers past really doesn't matter neither does Betty Shelby's . You disobey cops orders , you put your self at risk , you go putting your hands where a cop with a weapon drawn cant see them , you increase that risk a bunch . Leave it to NBC to attempt to smear the cop . It was a police spokesman that said she had a taser. How is that smearing her?
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