The investigation showed that he bet every day, not just 2 days and then skip. Pete bet on himself as the Reds Manager to win everyday according to the investigation by MLB

 

No one ever said he was a good gambler...but if you think your team is going to win 90+ games in a year then at the end of the year, you would be way ahead of the losses.

 

Probably not way ahead, and probably only a couple of hundred ahead at the end of the season, at most. You're not wagering $100 to win $100. You have to remember the vig which is anywhere from $20-$40 in baseball, meaning you're betting $120 or $140 to win $100. At a $20 vig, a 90 win season only nets you about $360 (which is better than losing). Pete never won 90 games as a manager though.

Probably not way ahead, and probably only a couple of hundred ahead at the end of the season, at most. You're not wagering $100 to win $100. You have to remember the vig which is anywhere from $20-$40 in baseball, meaning you're betting $120 or $140 to win $100. At a $20 vig, a 90 win season only nets you about $360 (which is better than losing). Pete never won 90 games as a manager though.

 

Don't as much about illegal gambling as you seem to. But it wouldn't matter how many games he actually won, it's that he "thought" each and everyday he was going to win. Pete's ego wouldn't allow him to admit that "We are probably going to lose today so I won't bet"

But at the end of the day I agree Betting On Baseball is wrong and Pete Rose deserved punishment...but that happened, after he was done playing!!! It should not have repercussions on what he did as a player.

I say, if they earned it, let 'em all in. Shoeless Joe, Eddie Cicotte, Lefty Williams, Chick Gandil, Bonds, Clemens, ARod. Keep them out of baseball if you wish but it's about the best baseball players.

 

I've changed my stance and that's what I'm going with.

I disagree w/ the stadium. As long as he's not an official guest of the team, he should have every right to watch a game. He can't directly impact the team or represent a team. That's should be the deal.

 

Disagree, if your going to disgrace the game by committing the cardinal sin of the game, than you lose all rights to be any part of said game, and that includes access to see it live.

And what most tend to ignore is Pete brought 100% of this on his self. Had he just admitted it from the start and worked with baseball to right the wrong then I think he is at least reinstated by now.

 

I think you are correct.

I think you are correct.

 

He did bring most of this on himself. I don't think you separate what he did as a manager and as a player. The are guys who were just managers and terrible players that are in the HOF. There is a sign in every MLB clubhouse that reminds player/coaches not to gamble. There is precedent for lifetime bans for gambling in MLB. I think he belongs, but he knowingly broke the rule. The one difference between Rose's case and the PED guys, is baseball really didn't have a rule against PED's prior to 2006. The rule against gambling has been around forever. And while maybe not explicitly encouraging PED use, ownership, managers, GM's and even players knew it was going, and did nothing to stop it. If baseball had reacted strongly from the very beginning we wouldn't be in the position we are in with records being tainted. There's a reason gambling isn't a huge problem in baseball....it's because the powers that be reacted very strongly towards it.

 

The hypocritical part of the Rose story is, if you go to Cooperstown, Pete's name is in almost every room. All he's missing is a plaque.

The problem isn't betting on your team to win. The problem is when he didn't bet. When he didn't place a bet to win, that's a clear indicator to the folks he's betting with that there is a good chance his team wouldn't win that day. Pete not betting is a signal, for everyone else to bet against his team. I know it's been said that he bet the Red's daily, but if that's true, he is a terrible gambler. No way he bet the Reds 162 times to win.

 

Not a betting guy, so I'll ask this...does baseball betting usually involve a point spread the way football does? The reason why I ask, is that the Reds could be considered 4 run favorites over the opposition, and Pete may not have bet on them for that game...NOT because he doesn't think they will win, (nor will he do anything to try and make them lose)...but, simply that he doesn't feel they can cover the spread. And yes, that action (or actually non-action) by him, may have some influence on the betting community...but, it would zero impact on how the game is played/managed on the field.

What many are not aware of is the fact that when Pete Rose accepted a ban from baseball, that did not preclude him from being elected to The Hall of Fame. Most felt that Pete would be elected eventually, but would be made to wait.

 

When Bart Giamatti died his successor, and best friend, Fay Vincent, was hurt and blamed Rose for the loss of a man he loved. Fay Vincent took it upon himself to use every force available to him to influence The Hall and the Baseball writers association to change their rules and ban those who were banned from baseball to admittance into the hall. Vincent, by all accounts used every means possible including various threats and other strong arm tactics. He ultimately got his wish, and that, Bart Giamatti's death and Fay Vincent's vendetta, is the reason that Rose is not in the HOF.

 

I personally spoke with Bud Selig about four or five years ago and he told me that Rose bet on the Reds to win on a daily basis. When I asked him if Rosé might someday be reinstated his reply was that, (paraphrasing because i can't remember exact wording but this is amost exact quote) Bart Giamatti was a great man. Many believe that this whole Rose thing brought on Bart's untimely death. I am in that camp.

 

Keep in mind that when Vincent stepped down as commissioner he strongly influenced the selection of Selig. As long as Selig is commish Rosé has no chance at reinstatement. When Selig steps down the new commish will be asked what his view is on Rose and if he does not openly support a continued ban Vincent will set out to eliminate that candidate.

 

 

 

Now on to the Hall of Fame. It is designed to honor the games greatest players. There can be no argument that Pete Rose is not among them. What it has not done was ever exclude anyone for poor character. Ty Cobb was notorious for his attempts to injure other players on the field. The acts that he committed on the field on a regular basis would not only get him suspended today, but would land him in jail. Others were drunkards wife abusers and on and on. The HOA recognizes baseball achievement. Nothing more. If you could get points toward the HOF for being a good guy, hell I might get in. ( I did hit about ten home runs in one little league season)

 

Pete Rose belongs in the Hall of Fame and deserves to be there.

Thanks for setting the record straight, ColdHard. I was just getting ready to post about the HOF instituting a rule just to basically keep Pete out.

I don't think it matters anymore. A HOF without the all-time hit leader, the all-time HR leader, the dominant RHP in his era, the HR hitter who broke the Ruth/Mantle record..............a HOF that can't even find anyone to induct....................who cares.

So, we look the other way if the player calls in a bet on his cell phone from the clubhouse on an NHL or NFL game? And Pete was not or is not the only player to bet on baseball. He just urinated off the wrong bookie and he's paid for it.

Edited August 1, 201313 yr by OlDog75

What many are not aware of is the fact that when Pete Rose accepted a ban from baseball, that did not preclude him from being elected to The Hall of Fame. Most felt that Pete would be elected eventually, but would be made to wait.

 

When Bart Giamatti died his successor, and best friend, Fay Vincent, was hurt and blamed Rose for the loss of a man he loved. Fay Vincent took it upon himself to use every force available to him to influence The Hall and the Baseball writers association to change their rules and ban those who were banned from baseball to admittance into the hall. Vincent, by all accounts used every means possible including various threats and other strong arm tactics. He ultimately got his wish, and that, Bart Giamatti's death and Fay Vincent's vendetta, is the reason that Rose is not in the HOF.

 

I personally spoke with Bud Selig about four or five years ago and he told me that Rose bet on the Reds to win on a daily basis. When I asked him if Rosé might someday be reinstated his reply was that, (paraphrasing because i can't remember exact wording but this is amost exact quote) Bart Giamatti was a great man. Many believe that this whole Rose thing brought on Bart's untimely death. I am in that camp.

 

Keep in mind that when Vincent stepped down as commissioner he strongly influenced the selection of Selig. As long as Selig is commish Rosé has no chance at reinstatement. When Selig steps down the new commish will be asked what his view is on Rose and if he does not openly support a continued ban Vincent will set out to eliminate that candidate.

 

 

 

Now on to the Hall of Fame. It is designed to honor the games greatest players. There can be no argument that Pete Rose is not among them. What it has not done was ever exclude anyone for poor character. Ty Cobb was notorious for his attempts to injure other players on the field. The acts that he committed on the field on a regular basis would not only get him suspended today, but would land him in jail. Others were drunkards wife abusers and on and on. The HOA recognizes baseball achievement. Nothing more. If you could get points toward the HOF for being a good guy, hell I might get in. ( I did hit about ten home runs in one little league season)

 

Pete Rose belongs in the Hall of Fame and deserves to be there.

 

You make a great point regarding Vincent and his grudge after Giammati's death. I'm sure the Rose situation didn't help but neither did those cigarettes he smoked.

I would have to disagree, cheating to win is worse than betting to win.

 

Gotta kick Gaylord Perry and Phil Neikro out then. Willie Mays and Willie Stargell too, they used amphetamines.

I think the bolded would be true once you get outside of the Cincy area.

 

Why the city has idolized the baffoon is beyond me. They've made him out to be some sort of innocent victim to a vicious vendetta by MLB.

 

Buffons are people who want to keep the hit king out. Pete forever selig never :walk: