Ohio High School Football Playoffs vs Kentucky High School Football Playoffs

[BlueBomber94]

Somebody please explain to me the difference between OH and KY playoffs. As I understood, even if a KY school goes 0-10, they still make the playoffs. What is the point? Is there no system to have those teams deserving to go to make it? Is it possible to have a 5-10 state champion? That would just be plain ludicrous.

 

Ohio uses the Harbin system (as flawed as it may be, it works). The top 8 teams (point-wise) from each Region of each Division makes the playoffs and compete for the state championship. A team at 6-4 could make the playoffs if they have accumulated enough points but at 5-5, you're out of luck. After team A defeats team B, team A receives extra points from any opponent team B defeats later. Many OH teams are ragged for playing "Harbin Cows" like Lou Trinity or Highlands. If you win, obviously those two teams are going to load you with extra points, as they both win the state championship most years.

 

Here's the Ohio system:

 

KEY

Wins over a Division I school - 6.0 points

Wins over a Division II school - 5.5 points

Wins over a Division III school - 5.0 points

Wins over a Division IV school - 4.5 points

Wins over a Division V school - 4.0 points

Wins over a Division VI school - 3.5 points

 

COMPUTER RANKINGS EXAMPLE

 

Team A, a Division III school, is 3-0.

Each opponent Team A has defeated is Division III.

Opponents 1 and 2, which Team A has defeated, are each 2-1, with their victories coming over Division III schools.

Opponent 3, which Team A has defeated, is 1-1, with its victory coming over a Division III school. Opponent 3 has had one open date.

 

First level points

15.0 points {3 wins times 5.0 points (for defeating Division III opponents)} divided by 3 (the number of games Team A has played thus far) = 5.0000 first level points.

 

Second level points

10.0 from Opponent 1 {2 wins times 5.0 (for defeating Division III opponents)}, 10.0 from Opponent 2 {2 wins times 5.0 (for defeating Division III opponents)} and 5.0 from Opponent 3 {1 win times 5.0 (for defeating a Division III opponent)} for 25.0 points. These 25 points are then divided by 99 (since Opponent 3 thus far has had an open date) and multiplied by 10 = 2.5253 second level points.

 

Total Points: 5.0000 (first level points) plus 2.5253 (second level points) = 7.5253

 

NOTE: Say during week four, Opponent 1 has an open date. Then the second level points divisor for Team A after week four becomes 98, since Opponent 3 has had one open date and now Opponent 1 has had one open date.

[Jumper_Dad]

This has been discussed at length...bottom line is that every team in every sport gets a chance in the playoffs in KY...but for some reason people lose their minds over football. Each state does their playoffs different and that is their right. The Ohio system as you said is flawed also but seems to work for Ohio. How often does a team come out of no where to have a hot year but miss the playoffs because the schedule wasn't tough enough? May not happen but in the Ohio system it looks like it could. We all agree that it should be played out on the field, well in KY we do.

 

As far as your example of a 5-10 team winning a state title, well if the 14-0 team can't beat them in a title game do they deserve the title? Look at Lou Central, they play and lose to much larger schools all year...then beat 3-4 teams their size in the regular season and routinely sweep through the playoffs for state titles. Under Harbin system it looks like they would be penalized for playing crazy tough schedule (losing to 5A and 6A schools) to prepare for the playoffs.

[Hellbird]

This has been discussed at length...bottom line is that every team in every sport gets a chance in the playoffs in KY...but for some reason people lose their minds over football. Each state does their playoffs different and that is their right. The Ohio system as you said is flawed also but seems to work for Ohio. How often does a team come out of no where to have a hot year but miss the playoffs because the schedule wasn't tough enough? May not happen but in the Ohio system it looks like it could. We all agree that it should be played out on the field, well in KY we do.

 

As far as your example of a 5-10 team winning a state title, well if the 14-0 team can't beat them in a title game do they deserve the title? Look at Lou Central, they play and lose to much larger schools all year...then beat 3-4 teams their size in the regular season and routinely sweep through the playoffs for state titles. Under Harbin system it looks like they would be penalized for playing crazy tough schedule (losing to 5A and 6A schools) to prepare for the playoffs.

Actually in KY football, every team doesn't make the playoffs. Didn't know if you meant with your statement that they did, they don't.

[mexitucky]

Somebody please explain to me the difference between OH and KY playoffs. As I understood, even if a KY school goes 0-10, they still make the playoffs. What is the point? Is there no system to have those teams deserving to go to make it? Is it possible to have a 5-10 state champion? That would just be plain ludicrous.

 

QUOTE]

 

There are 2 reasons that this is done in KY and not Ohio. 1. More playoff teams = more money. 2. KY has like 35 teams per class. They need some 0-10 teams to make the playoffs to make a balanced bracket. Ohio can't do that. There are what 5 classes/divisions in Ohio w/ at least 1.5 the amount of teams if not more. If Ohio tried to set it up like Kentucky, they'd be playing their playoffs through December. Ohio, out of necessity, must eliminate teams. Let's not pretend that Ohio does it to make their playoffs more prestigious. They would love to allow as many teams as possible in to capture the revenue.

[C-BOY78]

Kentucky may have to many classes but playoffs are decided on the field, not by some computer or point system.

[BlueBomber94]

Somebody please explain to me the difference between OH and KY playoffs. As I understood, even if a KY school goes 0-10, they still make the playoffs. What is the point? Is there no system to have those teams deserving to go to make it? Is it possible to have a 5-10 state champion? That would just be plain ludicrous.

 

QUOTE]

 

There are 2 reasons that this is done in KY and not Ohio. 1. More playoff teams = more money. 2. KY has like 35 teams per class. They need some 0-10 teams to make the playoffs to make a balanced bracket. Ohio can't do that. There are what 5 classes/divisions in Ohio w/ at least 1.5 the amount of teams if not more. If Ohio tried to set it up like Kentucky, they'd be playing their playoffs through December. Ohio, out of necessity, must eliminate teams. Let's not pretend that Ohio does it to make their playoffs more prestigious. They would love to allow as many teams as possible in to capture the revenue.

 

I can completely understand the "more money" aspect of having more teams. You said there are like 35 teams per class. Yeah, Ohio averages more like 120 in each of the 6 divisions. The divisions are being split up and there are now 7 for this year (new enrollment system). It'll be more like 102 per division but still a lot more. I wasn't sure how many teams there were in KY for each class. That makes much more sense. I wasn't trying to imply that KY has a bad system, it was just very confusing to me.

[mexitucky]

 

I can completely understand the "more money" aspect of having more teams. You said there are like 35 teams per class. Yeah, Ohio averages more like 120 in each of the 6 divisions. The divisions are being split up and there are now 7 for this year (new enrollment system). It'll be more like 102 per division but still a lot more. I wasn't sure how many teams there were in KY for each class. That makes much more sense. I wasn't trying to imply that KY has a bad system, it was just very confusing to me.

 

Indiana played, or did play, a 9 game regular season and threw in an extra round of playoffs which every team qualified for. On top of that, it was, I believe, a blind draw w/in each region. That made no sense to me.

[All Tell]

Actually in KY football, every team doesn't make the playoffs. Didn't know if you meant with your statement that they did, they don't.

 

Only in A and 6A do every team make the playoffs. I don't like it.

[gchs_uk9]

Only in A and 6A do every team make the playoffs. I don't like it.

 

I'm not against all teams making the playoffs. My problem is that all teams in two classes automatically make the playoffs, but the other four classes don't. But then also in Class 2A-5A some districts have four teams so everyone automatically makes the playoffs, but some districts have five or six teams and therefore not all make the playoffs.

 

So my biggest problem with the Kentucky system is consistency. Either all should make it or all should have to qualify. Schools shouldn't benefit or be penalized based on size or geography.

[Hellbird]

All I know is I will never be for a system that only allows top 2 seeds in each district to make the playoffs. Last year was a perfect example why that idea is flawed.

[ttank]

BB94 Do the harbin points count different for Ohio teams that play out of state teams. Highlands and Trinity for example?

[Mr. Sixer]

Kentucky may have to many classes but playoffs are decided on the field, not by some computer or point system.

 

And so is Ohio's. The fact remains each State is different. The methodology for Ohio is solid and has worked for a very long time. Bottom line is you better have a strong record and vs. some solid teams that are going to help you in the end from a calculation standpoint. In Ohio, the "fat" is trimmed early and in KY it's trimmed after the 1st or 2nd week of the playoffs. One of my son's played in Ohio and his team was 7-3 but was beat out by the slimmest of margins. Crushing blow but losing their last game of the year cost them.

 

Ky's system is Ky's system and it works here in Ky. but like another poster stated, most of those teams with significantly losing records get eliminated quick so it all works it'self out in the end.

[Jumper_Dad]

Actually in KY football, every team doesn't make the playoffs. Didn't know if you meant with your statement that they did, they don't.

You are correct of course, a handful of teams don't make it...my point was that even if they all do what does it hurt?

[Blue Rhino]

Somebody please explain to me the difference between OH and KY playoffs. As I understood, even if a KY school goes 0-10, they still make the playoffs. What is the point? Is there no system to have those teams deserving to go to make it? Is it possible to have a 5-10 state champion? That would just be plain ludicrous.

 

Ohio uses the Harbin system (as flawed as it may be, it works). The top 8 teams (point-wise) from each Region of each Division makes the playoffs and compete for the state championship. A team at 6-4 could make the playoffs if they have accumulated enough points but at 5-5, you're out of luck. After team A defeats team B, team A receives extra points from any opponent team B defeats later. Many OH teams are ragged for playing "Harbin Cows" like Lou Trinity or Highlands. If you win, obviously those two teams are going to load you with extra points, as they both win the state championship most years.Here's the Ohio system:

 

KEY

Wins over a Division I school - 6.0 points

Wins over a Division II school - 5.5 points

Wins over a Division III school - 5.0 points

Wins over a Division IV school - 4.5 points

Wins over a Division V school - 4.0 points

Wins over a Division VI school - 3.5 points

 

COMPUTER RANKINGS EXAMPLE

 

Team A, a Division III school, is 3-0.

Each opponent Team A has defeated is Division III.

Opponents 1 and 2, which Team A has defeated, are each 2-1, with their victories coming over Division III schools.

Opponent 3, which Team A has defeated, is 1-1, with its victory coming over a Division III school. Opponent 3 has had one open date.

 

First level points

15.0 points {3 wins times 5.0 points (for defeating Division III opponents)} divided by 3 (the number of games Team A has played thus far) = 5.0000 first level points.

 

Second level points

10.0 from Opponent 1 {2 wins times 5.0 (for defeating Division III opponents)}, 10.0 from Opponent 2 {2 wins times 5.0 (for defeating Division III opponents)} and 5.0 from Opponent 3 {1 win times 5.0 (for defeating a Division III opponent)} for 25.0 points. These 25 points are then divided by 99 (since Opponent 3 thus far has had an open date) and multiplied by 10 = 2.5253 second level points.

 

Total Points: 5.0000 (first level points) plus 2.5253 (second level points) = 7.5253

 

NOTE: Say during week four, Opponent 1 has an open date. Then the second level points divisor for Team A after week four becomes 98, since Opponent 3 has had one open date and now Opponent 1 has had one open date.

 

But, a team like the Bombers will get less points if they beat a Trinity for example and Trinity gets beat by a Moeller, or an Elder or a Colerain....teams that the Bombers also play. My point being that the Bombers would probably be better off point wise if they played a Trinity in a year that Trinity wasn't playing any of the teams that are already on the Bombers schedule.

[BlueBomber94]

BB94 Do the harbin points count different for Ohio teams that play out of state teams. Highlands and Trinity for example?

 

Don't quote me on this, I' not expert, but I think they take the size of the KY school and compare it to what division they would be in Ohio and give points to the team according to school size. For example, if Trinity has 500 students, Cincy St. X would get less points than playing a D1 Ohio school. I believe the KY 6A is closer to Ohio's DII or DIII. But with Trinity usually going all 10 games with 1 or 2 losses on the year, Cincy X would get a lot of L2 points for all the wins Trinity has if Cincy X defeats them. If X loses, they get no points.