He manages to turn what Paul said in plain talk to fit his agenda. I can see no validity in that interpretation other than to make his argument seem valid. As for his denouncement of the men who wanted to rape the male visitors in Sodom, I can even see where there could be some wiggle room for misinterpretation. However, if the whole point was to rape as a violent act, why not rape women? If the act was not one of sexual orientation, why not rape women? Why the men? Again, not buying the spin on the scripture. I can't agree with Khalid, I think the kid is very bright, not an idiot at all. Still, for me at least, the scripture is clear and he attempts to sway the listener to doubt what he just read.

Edited August 19, 201214 yr by spindoc

I can't agree with Khalid, I think the kid is very bright, not an idiot at all.

 

Idiot as in wrong (or not agreeing with me), not idiot as unintelligent.

A major part of the Bible's story is that we're corrupted with a sin nature & that nature needs replacing with the Holy Spirit.

:thumb: Very nice, Randy. Applies to so many aspects of our lives.

Five weeks ago today I became a born again christian.Five weeks ago plus two days(Friday the 13th)My wife and I were brought to our knees,because of something that happened concerning our Son.This was something I knew that I could not fix on my own.I got down on my knees and I prayed to Jesus for guidance and support.The last five weeks I have went from the lowest point of my life to the strongest I have ever been.

 

I have been on the Lords path before,and I have always ended up lost.The reason I believe that I have lost my faith so many times before is because I relied on the preacher,the bible and other peoples opinions.

 

This time around God told me,that from now on to listen to him.He wants me to have a personal relationship with him.He told me to stop getting bent out of shape about what others think and believe!He wants me to seek answers from him,and He will provide me with the directions and knowledge that I need.

 

I've been talking to him about this homosexual thing and He knows that I'm not gay,and whoever is it's not up to me to tell them that they are wrong.He just want's me to pray for them,that they have a personal relationship with Christ.He will let them know what's right and wrong.

 

Christ also told me that I have bigger fish to fry than getting all wrapped up in same sex marriage.

For example,Greed.I need to worry more about the homeless,the hungry and the sick especially when I've been blessed to live in a nice home,I never have to worry about eating,I'm healthy,and so much more!

 

I truly believe that I am going to stay on Gods path the rest of my life,not because of church,not because of any rules or laws,and not what any man tells me even if it came to him directly from God.

This time around I am going to rely on my personal relationship with Christ.I truly believe with all of my heart that he has restored my faith to trust in him,and he will keep me in the right direction.

I also believe that God speaks to us all differently,and that we can interpret things differently.

So it's not my place to debate anyone else about what convictions they receive from God.

 

Pray for me brothers and sisters,I know that I sure could use them...

 

Very nice post. I have also walked down that same path and have not always listened to God and I have been taught some hard lessons. It wasn't until my mother died 5 years ago that it was laid on me all the things I needed to do to become closer to God. I went to people and apologized for being prideful and argumentative. Little things that would get me riled up don’t matter to me anymore. It has made me a better husband and father. I still struggle like other sinners but I try my best. I will not judge other people for what they do. It is not up to me. I treat all people the same no matter sexual preference or religious beliefs. I don't understand people who hate or want to harm someone because of what they believe.

Very nice post. I have also walked down that same path and have not always listened to God and I have been taught some hard lessons. It wasn't until my mother died 5 years ago that it was laid on me all the things I needed to do to become closer to God. I went to people and apologized for being prideful and argumentative. Little things that would get me riled up don’t matter to me anymore. It has made me a better husband and father. I still struggle like other sinners but I try my best. I will not judge other people for what they do. It is not up to me. I treat all people the same no matter sexual preference or religious beliefs. I don't understand people who hate or want to harm someone because of what they believe.

:thumb:

Very powerful post. Being judgemental and unforgiving holds you prisoner. No gain in that. I write that because I also struggle to remember.

I've not weighed in on this yet, my thoughts are this..."I have enough worries hating my own sin that I don't have time to spend hating anyone else's sin"

I don't understand people who hate or want to harm someone because of what they believe.

Very good

I've not weighed in on this yet, my thoughts are this..."I have enough worries hating my own sin that I don't have time to spend hating anyone else's sin"

 

This is exactly in line with my frame of thinking!

Five weeks ago today I became a born again christian.Five weeks ago plus two days(Friday the 13th)My wife and I were brought to our knees,because of something that happened concerning our Son.This was something I knew that I could not fix on my own.I got down on my knees and I prayed to Jesus for guidance and support.The last five weeks I have went from the lowest point of my life to the strongest I have ever been.

 

I have been on the Lords path before,and I have always ended up lost.The reason I believe that I have lost my faith so many times before is because I relied on the preacher,the bible and other peoples opinions.

 

This time around God told me,that from now on to listen to him.He wants me to have a personal relationship with him.He told me to stop getting bent out of shape about what others think and believe!He wants me to seek answers from him,and He will provide me with the directions and knowledge that I need.

 

I've been talking to him about this homosexual thing and He knows that I'm not gay,and whoever is it's not up to me to tell them that they are wrong.He just want's me to pray for them,that they have a personal relationship with Christ.He will let them know what's right and wrong.

 

Christ also told me that I have bigger fish to fry than getting all wrapped up in same sex marriage.

For example,Greed.I need to worry more about the homeless,the hungry and the sick especially when I've been blessed to live in a nice home,I never have to worry about eating,I'm healthy,and so much more!

 

I truly believe that I am going to stay on Gods path the rest of my life,not because of church,not because of any rules or laws,and not what any man tells me even if it came to him directly from God.

This time around I am going to rely on my personal relationship with Christ.I truly believe with all of my heart that he has restored my faith to trust in him,and he will keep me in the right direction.

I also believe that God speaks to us all differently,and that we can interpret things differently.

So it's not my place to debate anyone else about what convictions they receive from God.

 

Pray for me brothers and sisters,I know that I sure could use them...

 

For me, that is one of the most profound posts I have ever read on this board. Thank you very much for it.

For me, that is one of the most profound posts I have ever read on this board. Thank you very much for it.

 

Swaprat,I appreciate your comment,and I thank you for it.I can only take credit for typing it,because I truly believe that the words came from God.

Very nice post. I have also walked down that same path and have not always listened to God and I have been taught some hard lessons. It wasn't until my mother died 5 years ago that it was laid on me all the things I needed to do to become closer to God. I went to people and apologized for being prideful and argumentative. Little things that would get me riled up don’t matter to me anymore. It has made me a better husband and father. I still struggle like other sinners but I try my best. I will not judge other people for what they do. It is not up to me. I treat all people the same no matter sexual preference or religious beliefs. I don't understand people who hate or want to harm someone because of what they believe.

 

I think sometimes people mistake a Christian's belief that a particular act is sinful with them hating that particular person or group of people. There are some who would fit that description no doubt, but for the most part, I don't think that's the case. For example, I do not believe the people who have responded to this thread with the prevailing Christian view hate homosexuals. Nor do I believe it is judgmental to acknowledge that something is a sin.

 

There are lots of sins, many I am guilty of myself, but I do not hate the people who commit or have committed those acts. Such is the case with this topic.

 

Homosexuality gets much attention because it is a hot-button issue. I suspect much of that is due to it being used as a political tool.

I think sometimes people mistake a Christian's belief that a particular act is sinful with them hating that particular person or group of people. There are some who would fit that description no doubt, but for the most part, I don't think that's the case. For example, I do not believe the people who have responded to this thread with the prevailing Christian view hate homosexuals. Nor do I believe it is judgmental to acknowledge that something is a sin.

 

There are lots of sins, many I am guilty of myself, but I do not hate the people who commit or have committed those acts. Such is the case with this topic.

 

Homosexuality gets much attention because it is a hot-button issue. I suspect much of that is due to it being used as a political tool.

 

:thumb:

 

Through most of my childhood, I can't remember a time where I didn't hear my mother say at least weekly, "Love the sinner. Hate the sin."

:thumb:

 

Through most of my childhood, I can't remember a time where I didn't hear my mother say at least weekly, "Love the sinner. Hate the sin."

 

The challenge is how to convey a loving, caring attitude while condemning the act/sin. The issue of homosexuality is especially challenging. For starters, this thread is exhibit A. We're debating whether homosexuality is even a sin. Nobody debates whether lying, cheating, stealing, adultery, etc. is sinful.

 

Secondly, while it is true in the general sense that we're born with a sinful nature, inclined toward sinful behavior, the acts mentioned above are singular acts in themselves. When we do them, they are things we consciously decide to do. We may be habitual offenders, but we still decide to perform the act each and every time. It doesn't seem quite the same for homosexuality, IMO. Certainly, there would be a decision to act upon your desire. But, assuming you believe a person is born homosexual, that desire is inherent. If a person changes, stops lying or stops stealing, we generally don't consider them liars or thieves any longer. But, if a person chooses not to act upon their desire, they are still a homosexual. They just don't act on it. It just seems a little different in that regard to me.

 

And finally, related to the last point, I think it touches upon our sense of fairness in life. Relationships and companionship is an inherent desire in pretty much all of us, with the ultimate desire for it to culminate in a lifelong partner. For a person to be born with an attraction to the same sex, which we think is sinful, doesn't seem fair. Just briefly imagine if it was the other way around and heterosexuality was viewed as sinful. The problem is, the fairness we think of is a subjective, human idea. I don't think it is fair that I'm born with a sinful nature. I'd rather not be this way. But, life isn't fair. Anyone with any experience knows that.

If a person changes, stops lying or stops stealing, we generally don't consider them liars or thieves any longer. But, if a person chooses not to act upon their desire, they are still a homosexual. They just don't act on it. It just seems a little different in that regard to me.

 

Most alcoholics I have known say they will always be alcoholics, even if they have been sober for years.

Most alcoholics I have known say they will always be alcoholics, even if they have been sober for years.

 

It is true that they will say that, but I think there's a difference. It is also true that many Christians will continue to say that they are a liar or a thief even after they've changed. The thought is the same - to remember what you were to help you stay on the right path. The motivation would be completely different.

 

From the other side, if a former alcoholic has been sober for years, I do not view them as an alcoholic any longer. If a homosexual abstained from relationships, I'd still view them as a homosexual.