I absolutely agree. But the whole topic in this thread is homosexuality. We could go on about other sins, other sexual immoralities. But this thread topic is homosexuality. If we have a thread along the lines of the differences, scripturally or morally, and similarities of heter or homo sin, they're all the same. My only point is to say that it's not true at all that Christ or Christians condone heterosexual sin like adultery, sex outside the parameters of marriage. I would have to guess that there are/were a majority of folks on this board who had, or do currently have heterosexual relations that would fall under the category of sexual immorality. Still every bit the sin as homosexual sin.

 

And I don't want to go any further down this path without clearing something. I've not only given this topic, this thread alot of thought, and it's really bothered me. First, I don't want to argue (although it's totally in my nature) for the sake of argument or attempting to prove my thoughts or disprove someone's thoughts. I believe the scripture to be true. I'm fully convinced that Revelations and the prophecy and signs of the end times are nigh. I'm not being poetic, and I understand that has been the mindset of Christians for ages upon ages. But I am serious and honest when I say that if I understand the book of Revelation correctly, we are in a perfect place soon for the return of Christ. The military and political position and stance of the neighbors of Israel for starters. With that said, I am also fully convinced that the ONLY way to Heaven is through God's son. I am convinced that there aren't many ways. Not several paths. And with much deliberation and thought, I don't want my answers or my thoughts on this subject to be a hindrance to anyone. Nor do I want it to be a stumbling block for someone who hasn't made Christ their savior. I, frequently, am a poor example of a Christian. I struggle like most everyone on this board with issues of the flesh, with anger, scorn and all the rest. It's sincerely my prayer that everyone of us makes it to Heaven. I'm also convinced that there is a Hell to shun and a Heaven to gain. I'll submit one last section of scripture in Romans chapter 1 where Paul addresses God's wrath against sinful humanity.

 

Romans 1:18-32

18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since that what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities-his eternal power and divine nature-have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator--who is forever praised. Amen

26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what they ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

 

I think that it's clear here. I understand some think that God's word is full of parables and metaphor. But I don't, and with that understanding, this is a scripture that I can't ignore.

 

If this literal scenario went down, we're all screwed. Heaven will a pretty lonely place.

I don't get this line of thinking. I'm pretty sure most of those folks just want to be left alone by the Bible-tossers.

 

Then they would have simply ignored Chik Fil A.

If this literal scenario went down, we're all screwed. Heaven will a pretty lonely place.

 

Do you believe in heaven? Serious question.

If this literal scenario went down, we're all screwed. Heaven will a pretty lonely place.

You may be right. And that's why Christ instructs his followers to "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it" in Matthew 7:13.

Then they would have simply ignored Chik Fil A.

No doubt.:thumb:

Soooo … "Thou shalt not be gay" is No. 11?

 

Nahh...I think God (or Jesus) would have mentioned it directly if it were that important an issue. There are lots of sins that are obvious wrongs that were not mentioned in the ten commandments.

Soooo … "Thou shalt not be gay" is No. 11?

 

I believe it was Jim. I have some proof.

At least we are having this conversation. People are challenging their own faiths and others positions. I do it in hopes to better understand my own. Since I'm coming across as anti-Bible, let me solidify my position. I believe in the Trinity. I believe and fear God. I believe that the Jesus gave his human life so that we can enter into heaven. I believe that the Holy Spirit truly inspires those willing to listen. I do not, however, hold the Bible out as the purely inspired work of God. I've stated why. If you followed the history of the Catholic church, you will know that it was as powerful politically as it was spiritually. My fear is that Man, as editor-in-chief bastardized much of the NT in hopes to conform it to their agenda. I believe that the Gospels are a collection of stories that had many authors through the first centuries of the church. I have a serious issue with this. If you doubt where the church was at, question why it is that you are not Catholic. Catholicism is the direct line of faith from God, yet the church leaders became so politicized that people like Luther couldn't take it anymore. He nailed those Thesis on the church door, not to be a heretic, but to ask for reform. As a result...he was excommunicated. I believe that through my faith in Jesus, by living as a Catholic (Christian of whatever denomination) that I will put myself in position to be judged favorably. If I don't go to Heaven b/c I don't take the Bible literally word for word, then what about those that aren't Catholic. Remember, Peter is the rock upon which his church was built. If you don't follow the Pope, what does that do to you? I'd like to think, nothing if you lived in Christ's example.

I appreciate your candor. And I know we have went on several tangents in this one. As for the rock, I believe that Jesus says to Peter, upon this rock, this truth that you have confessed, that I am the Messiah and upon confessions of this from all believers, I will build my church.

I appreciate your candor. And I know we have went on several tangents in this one. As for the rock, I believe that Jesus says to Peter, upon this rock, this truth that you have confessed, that I am the Messiah and upon confessions of this from all believers, I will build my church.

 

King James: "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

 

NIV: "And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it."

 

Jerusalem Bible: "So I now say to you: You are Peter and on this rock I will build my church. And the gates of the underworld can never overpower it."

The name Peter (which was given to him by Jesus) is derived from the Greek word Petros, which means "stone". So literally, Jesus is saying: "you are stone, and upon this rock I will build my church".

This thread has been very enlightening. In fact, many BGP threads on this topic have opened my mind. So here is where I stand right now. I do not believe there is a gay gene. I am not a fan of gay marrriage, because I believe marriage is union for a man and a woman. But I am to the point that legally, it is probably not right that they are prevented from getting married.

Do I think it is a sin? I think that any sex outside of marriage is a sin. Therefore, let gay people get married. After they are married, do I still think it is a sin? Probably. But that is for God to decide, not me.

Edited August 13, 201214 yr by hoops5
spelling

Have any of you ever heard of a guy named Dr.Greg Boyd?

I have recently come across him since I have been reunited with my faith in Jesus.I truly feel that God placed him my life.

He is controversial,radical,very intelligent and in my opinion a true disciple of Christ.

 

If you have under 8 minutes to watch this video,I would like to know what you think about this message.

For me,this is exactly how I feel about the subject of Homosexuality and sin.

 

[video=youtube_share;20sa4pKbxAo]http://youtu.be/20sa4pKbxAo

 

Here's a guy that I have conversations w/. He was my teammate in college. This video went viral.

King James: "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

 

NIV: "And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it."

 

Jerusalem Bible: "So I now say to you: You are Peter and on this rock I will build my church. And the gates of the underworld can never overpower it."

The name Peter (which was given to him by Jesus) is derived from the Greek word Petros, which means "stone". So literally, Jesus is saying: "you are stone, and upon this rock I will build my church".

Yep, and the verses leading up to that statement confirm that Peter confesses Christ at the Messiah. And it's that fact, in my opinion, that he makes the statement to Peter that he will establish his Church and that foundation for the Church with full reliance upon Peter. Are you saying that the Church is founded upon Peter? and not Christ? Or am I misinterpreting?

Watusi, would you be willing to share some NT verses that make it clear that homosexuality is a sin?

 

Let me start by stating that I believe the Bible to be the inspired word of God. What does that mean? In 2 Timothy 3:16, Paul boldly claimed, “All scripture is given by inspiration of God”. The Greek term underlying the word “inspiration” means “God-breathed”. Paul was affirming that Scripture, is the product of the breath of God. God actually breathed out the Scriptures. The Bible is God’s Word—not man’s—though He used man to produce them. Three verses later (4:2), Paul delared, “Therefore...preach the word...” Why? Because it is God’s Word. Just as surely as God’s breath brought the Universe into existence (Psalm 33:6), so the Bible is the result of God’s out-breathing. I believe that God could have chosen any manner of ways to pass down his word to us, and he chose to do it using inspired writers. God would not have chosen an imperfect way to impart his word to us. Therefore, I base my beliefs on the Bible and its teachings, because I believe it to be the authoritative source for God's word. (This is another great topic, how we got the Bible, was it inspired, etc.)

 

So what does the Bible say about homosexual practices? The OT citings are well known and TB&G specifically asked for my thoughts on the NT verses so this is my humble attempt to present them in some coherent way.

 

 

 

In this post I will start with Romans 1:26-27. Spindoc posted this above, so I am not going to go too deep in discussion on this one as I had planned. I will just add to what was posted previously.

 

In Paul's epistle to the Romans, he was writing to a pagan Roman society. Paul cental message in the first three chapters seems to be to tell his readers that “all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23). One of the specific sins listed by Paul was the abandonment of proper sexual relationships between men and women. The women began to lust for other women, and the men “burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful” (Romans 1:27).

 

Homosexuality has been against the will of God since the beginning of Creation when He made humans male and female. Romans 1:26-27 deals specifically with homosexuality, and condemns it as a practice that is wrong, unnatural and shameful. You cannot twist the text of Romans 1:26-27 to permit any type of same-sex intercourse. If you practice these homosexual acts and refuse to repent, then you will not be saved from those sins.

 

However, the story doesn't end there because as Paul teaches, we ALL have sinned and fallen short. So unless there is a way out, as Jim put it, we are all screwed.

 

God wants all men and women everywhere to be saved (2 Peter 3:9), but He demands that they repent of and turn away from their sins, “because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness” (Acts 17:30-31).

 

 

In my next post I will cite from Matthew 19 and we will look at Jesus' comments