Umpire question

[ladiesbballcoach]

Two scenarios came up in my son's game tonight. First, I am about 99.9999999999% sure that the umpire was wrong.

 

Close play at 1B. Our coach made the comment that ties went to the runner. Umpire announces to the crowd, ties do NOT go to the runner. Who was correct?

 

 

 

2nd scenario, little more detail.

 

Runner at 3B. Count 3-0. Our coach thought he could just say put the batter on and the batter went to 1B. Home plate umpire said you have to throw the pitch. Our pitcher got on the rubber and the catcher stood up for the pitch. Key information: Home plate umpire is standing up behind the plate with his mask OFF and the batter is 3-4 feet outside of the batter's box. Our pitcher while standing on the rubber begins to throw an intentional ball and sees the ump without his mask on and TALKING WITH OUR COACH AT THIS POINT as well as the batter not in the batter box and stops his throw.

 

Base ump calls balk and sends runner home.

 

Right call or not.

[Spartan79]

Two scenarios came up in my son's game tonight. First, I am about 99.9999999999% sure that the umpire was wrong.

 

Close play at 1B. Our coach made the comment that ties went to the runner. Umpire announces to the crowd, ties do NOT go to the runner. Who was correct?

 

 

 

2nd scenario, little more detail.

 

Runner at 3B. Count 3-0. Our coach thought he could just say put the batter on and the batter went to 1B. Home plate umpire said you have to throw the pitch. Our pitcher got on the rubber and the catcher stood up for the pitch. Key information: Home plate umpire is standing up behind the plate with his mask OFF and the batter is 3-4 feet outside of the batter's box. Our pitcher while standing on the rubber begins to throw an intentional ball and sees the ump without his mask on and TALKING WITH OUR COACH AT THIS POINT as well as the batter not in the batter box and stops his throw.

 

Base ump calls balk and sends runner home.

 

Right call or not.

 

Scenario 1: No such thing as tie goes to the runner in baseball. Runner is either out or safe. MLB umpires are told in their umpire school when in doubt the runner is out.

Scenario 2: Was time called? If yes, then the home plate umpire has to put it back into play by usually pointing at the pitcher. One thing I see with a lot of umpires is they don't always put it back in play. Game should have been protested. Was it?

[ladiesbballcoach]

Scenario 1: No such thing as tie goes to the runner in baseball. Runner is either out or safe. MLB umpires are told in their umpire school when in doubt the runner is out.

Scenario 2: Was time called? If yes, then the home plate umpire has to put it back into play by usually pointing at the pitcher. One thing I see with a lot of umpires is they don't always put it back in play. Game should have been protested. Was it?

 

No time was called but Umpire had mask off and talking to our coach with the batter not in the box.

 

If the pitcher would have continued with the throw, it would have not counted as a pitch because the batter was not in the box, correct?

[doubledeuce]

Why did the pitcher begin to throw before put back in play?

[ladiesbballcoach]

Why did the pitcher begin to throw before put back in play?

 

Bases umpire told him he had to throw a pitch before it was an intentional walk.

[Spartan79]

This obviously wasn't a high school game, correct?

[ladiesbballcoach]

This obviously wasn't a high school game, correct?

Knothole 13U

[Clyde]

I'm guessing the league your son plays in uses MLB/OBR rules which requires the pitcher to make the throws. High school/FED does not.

 

I can't imagine the ball was put into play if the umpire still had his mask off. He should have declared "no pitch."

[Spartan79]

Yes, knothole uses MLB rules other than a few substitution and lineup rules. Therefore, he had to throw the pitch; however, most knothole districts have a warning on the first balk with no consequences.

[frank_davis]

Two scenarios came up in my son's game tonight. First, I am about 99.9999999999% sure that the umpire was wrong.

 

Close play at 1B. Our coach made the comment that ties went to the runner. Umpire announces to the crowd, ties do NOT go to the runner. Who was correct?

 

 

 

2nd scenario, little more detail.

 

Runner at 3B. Count 3-0. Our coach thought he could just say put the batter on and the batter went to 1B. Home plate umpire said you have to throw the pitch. Our pitcher got on the rubber and the catcher stood up for the pitch. Key information: Home plate umpire is standing up behind the plate with his mask OFF and the batter is 3-4 feet outside of the batter's box. Our pitcher while standing on the rubber begins to throw an intentional ball and sees the ump without his mask on and TALKING WITH OUR COACH AT THIS POINT as well as the batter not in the batter box and stops his throw.

 

Base ump calls balk and sends runner home.

 

Right call or not.

 

It depends.

 

In High School the batter/runner is safe if he touches the base before the ball is caught. BEFORE is the key word here. If it is a tie, the runner is not there BEFORE the ball and is therefore out. Pro rule states that the batter/runner is out if the ball arrives BEFORE he gets to the bag. So therefore if it's a tie in the pros, the runner is safe.

 

 

In your second scenario it should have been a no-pitch, a do-over.

[cooperstown]

I'm guessing the league your son plays in uses MLB/OBR rules which requires the pitcher to make the throws. High school/FED does not.

 

I can't imagine the ball was put into play if the umpire still had his mask off. He should have declared "no pitch."

 

Can you give me a rule cite on this? Unless the batter had a legal reason to be out of the box (i.e., time was called, had just attempted drag bunt, had just swung at pitch, vacated box due to wild pitch, catcher stepped out of his box to call signal or adjust equipment, and one or two other situations), then he was illegally out of the box. If the pitcher does not go through with his pitch because the batter is illegally out of the box, it is not a balk and is considered a "scratch" or "do-over."

 

As far as LBBC's first question, there are NO TIES in baseball. Not in the final score and not when is running is going to the base. He either beat the throw or the throw beat him. People sound so unbeleivably ignorant when they say "ties go to the runner." Ugh . . . . :ohbrother:

[cooperstown]

It depends.

 

In High School the batter/runner is safe if he touches the base before the ball is caught. BEFORE is the key word here. If it is a tie, the runner is not there BEFORE the ball and is therefore out. Pro rule states that the batter/runner is out if the ball arrives BEFORE he gets to the bag. So therefore if it's a tie in the pros, the runner is safe.

 

 

In your second scenario it should have been a no-pitch, a do-over.

 

For the record, I did not see your post when I posted mine. Just thought it was cool we used the same terminology. :thumb: Both parties - pitcher and hitter - did something illegal (assuming batter wasn't out of box for one of a couple legal reasons), so they cancel each other out.

[Clyde]

Can you give me a rule cite on this? Unless the batter had a legal reason to be out of the box (i.e., time was called, had just attempted drag bunt, had just swung at pitch, vacated box due to wild pitch, catcher stepped out of his box to call signal or adjust equipment, and one or two other situations), then he was illegally out of the box. If the pitcher does not go through with his pitch because the batter is illegally out of the box, it is not a balk and is considered a "scratch" or "do-over."

 

beleivably ignorant when they say "ties go to the runner." Ugh . . . . :ohbrother:

 

My comment was aimed at the issue of the pitcher being required to actually pitch the ball on an IBB vs high school where you just tell the batter to take his base.

[cooperstown]

My comment was aimed at the issue of the pitcher being required to actually pitch the ball on an IBB vs high school where you just tell the batter to take his base.

 

Gotcha. :thumb:

[frank_davis]

For the record, I did not see your post when I posted mine. Just thought it was cool we used the same terminology. :thumb: Both parties - pitcher and hitter - did something illegal (assuming batter wasn't out of box for one of a couple legal reasons), so they cancel each other out.

 

Great minds think alike Coop!