Some Obama nuggets

[MoreheadEagle]

Here's the problem I have with the majority of people who use abortion as the litmus test on choosing a candidate:

 

90% of those people are doing nothing that prevents the cause of abortion. Abortion is not a legal issue, in my mind, because you can't legislate morality. Even if abortion is ruled illegal, there will be abortions.

 

Of course, many are satisfied with the result of having women who have abortions put in jail for breaking the law, or the doctors who perform them.

 

But in the end, the cause for abortion will still be there.

 

If one is so concerned about abortion, then I would expect to see them supporting sex-education is schools, programs to involve kids to teach them the value of abstinence, and helping fund and volunteering to staff crisis pregnancy counseling centers. Why not spend energy promoting the value of adoption? What about working on a way to make adoption in America a more viable option?

 

I get so upset by the fact that so many people look to the governement to solve an issue by making it legal or illegal. In the end, I think the efforts spent trying to elect officials that can do relatively little immediately, would be better and more expeditiously spent eliminating the reasons women choose abortion.

 

Right On! Also teach kids about birth control and how to use it. Many instances of unwanted pregnancy comes from young men not knowing how to properly use condoms. Also, don't put such a stigma around purchasing birth control. I was in a convenience store in Alabama last year that had condoms under lock and key with the sudafed. Why do that? Kids should know that yes abstinence is best but if you're going to do it use a condom and use it properly. Teens have been having sex since the dawn of time and there's no way to stop it, but there is a way to lower abortion rates. I find it funny that Europe has no restrictions on abortions but lower rates than the USA.

[halfback20]

Here's the problem I have with the majority of people who use abortion as the litmus test on choosing a candidate:

 

90% of those people are doing nothing that prevents the cause of abortion. Abortion is not a legal issue, in my mind, because you can't legislate morality. Even if abortion is ruled illegal, there will be abortions.

 

Of course, many are satisfied with the result of having women who have abortions put in jail for breaking the law, or the doctors who perform them.

 

But in the end, the cause for abortion will still be there.

 

If one is so concerned about abortion, then I would expect to see them supporting sex-education is schools, programs to involve kids to teach them the value of abstinence, and helping fund and volunteering to staff crisis pregnancy counseling centers. Why not spend energy promoting the value of adoption? What about working on a way to make adoption in America a more viable option?

 

I get so upset by the fact that so many people look to the governement to solve an issue by making it legal or illegal. In the end, I think the efforts spent trying to elect officials that can do relatively little immediately, would be better and more expeditiously spent eliminating the reasons women choose abortion.

 

You make some very good points.

[cch5432]

Teens have been having sex since the dawn of time and there's no way to stop it, but there is a way to lower abortion rates.

That statement adds to the problem. Telling teens "you will have sex no matter what" allows them to believe it.

[UKPat02]

Its been a crazy political campaign.

Next thing we know, Hillary will be challenging Obama to a bowl-off, with the winner getting the Florida and Michigan delegates.

 

Ask and ye shall receive....

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080401/ts_afp/usvotedemocratsaprilfooloffbeat_080401200928

:laugh:

[IM4THEHOUNDS]

So someone who is pro-choice shouldn't be in the military? I guess I should tell my buddy who's in the Army to go AWOL.

 

In a position of serving in a leadership capacity . . . an elected official.

[IM4THEHOUNDS]

That statement adds to the problem. Telling teens "you will have sex no matter what" allows them to believe it.

 

Exactly.:thumb:

[IM4THEHOUNDS]

The next president could. In my humble mind it's not just about abortion and guns it's about the mindset of the candidate and the types of judges that he/she will appoint. Whether you believe it or not that will have an affect on all of us in some way or another and that affect wil be in place for years.

 

It will have a HUGE affect on all of us. These appointments are crucial and will have long lasting ramifications.

[rockmom]

My thoughts of teaching absitnence extend beyond saying "don't do it". It means teaching responsibility. It means teaching an attitude of self-worth. It means teaching kids to value themselves and to understand the responsibilities of sex.

 

Who among us isn't capable of teaching those concepts?

[cch5432]

My thoughts of teaching absitnence extend beyond saying "don't do it". It means teaching responsibility. It means teaching an attitude of self-worth. It means teaching kids to value themselves and to understand the responsibilities of sex.

 

Who among us isn't capable of teaching those concepts?

I think you are a closet conservative. :fire:

 

How does handing out condoms and giving the odds of pregnancy associated with one teach responsibility? If anything, it teaches them to blame the condom for anything that goes wrong (STDs, unintended pregnancies), not themselves.

[rockmom]

I think you are a closet conservative. :fire:

 

How does handing out condoms and giving the odds of pregnancy associated with one teach responsibility? If anything, it teaches them to blame the condom for anything that goes wrong (STDs, unintended pregnancies), not themselves.

 

 

Sex education does not mean teaching kids to use birth control per se. It does mean educating kids on the totality of the consequences of having unprotected sex, but should include ethics classes as well.

[cch5432]

Sex education does not mean teaching kids to use birth control per se. It does mean educating kids on the totality of the consequences of having unprotected sex, but should include ethics classes as well.

I didn't grow up in an environment that teaches "safe sex", but do they teach the consequences of having sex? I am asking, not being condescending.

[MoreheadEagle]

In a position of serving in a leadership capacity . . . an elected official.

 

So all of the pro-choice elected officials who were elected by the people who agree with them serve no purpose?

[rockmom]

I didn't grow up in an environment that teaches "safe sex", but do they teach the consequences of having sex? I am asking, not being condescending.

 

 

I'll be honest, I have no experience with sex-education as they teach it in public schools. I only know what I was taught, and what my kids were taught. I do know that this is one area where I really feel that every penny I spent on Catholic education for my kids was well spent. Their religious instruction was basically "applied religion". How to live your life with Catholic values. My daughter's school had one whole semester titled "Affective Life Skills". It was about conflict resolution, self-esteem, self-worth and self-value. Does that mean no girl in her school got pregnant? No.

 

This should be beyond the schools. There should be outreach programs targeting these kids, IMO. Yes, churches have youth groups. Yes, there are community programs. My thoughts run more toward groups like these going out to reach the parts of the community that are not involved in these organizations.

 

Even "safe sex" isn't foolproof. Until kids learn that instant gratification isn't necessisarily a desirable trait, or until kids learn that sex doesn't equal love, we won't solve the "abortion" problem. We will likely never solve the unwanted pregnancy problem, but you can't tell me we're doing all we can.

[MoreheadEagle]

I didn't grow up in an environment that teaches "safe sex", but do they teach the consequences of having sex? I am asking, not being condescending.

 

Where I went to high school in Ohio we had about a week of sex-ed from 5th to 10th grade. In 5th grade we learned about the difference between male and female reproduction. In 6th we learned all about STD's and the rest of the time was an STD prevention education. We learned that abstinence was the best way to prevent all the bad stuff but we also learned what condoms were and what they do. We had 1 girl out of 100 get pregnant in my senior class and I know more than that were sexually active.

 

I went to visit a girl I dated in college from Eastern Ky. when I was an undergrad. We went to watch the kids walk into her sister's prom and I noticed how many of her HS friends were pregnant or had kids. I asked her if she had been taught about condoms in HS and she said all they learned was not to do it. The fact is that abstinence only doesn't work. You don't tell the kids it's OK to do it, you give them the information and let them make their own choice. I'm just stating reality. Teens are going to have sex, and jamming abstinence down their throats isn't going to stop it.

 

I went through True Love Waits at my church twice. I've heard all the stuff they tell you and all it does is promote ignorance. You hear all this propaganda about how condoms don't work and how you can get pregnant through your clothes and it makes a lot of kids scared, and confused.

[cch5432]

Where I went to high school in Ohio we had about a week of sex-ed from 5th to 10th grade. In 5th grade we learned about the difference between male and female reproduction. In 6th we learned all about STD's and the rest of the time was an STD prevention education. We learned that abstinence was the best way to prevent all the bad stuff but we also learned what condoms were and what they do. We had 1 girl out of 100 get pregnant in my senior class and I know more than that were sexually active.

 

I went to visit a girl I dated in college from Eastern Ky. when I was an undergrad. We went to watch the kids walk into her sister's prom and I noticed how many of her HS friends were pregnant or had kids. I asked her if she had been taught about condoms in HS and she said all they learned was not to do it. The fact is that abstinence only doesn't work. You don't tell the kids it's OK to do it, you give them the information and let them make their own choice. I'm just stating reality. Teens are going to have sex, and jamming abstinence down their throats isn't going to stop it.

 

I went through True Love Waits at my church twice. I've heard all the stuff they tell you and all it does is promote ignorance. You hear all this propaganda about how condoms don't work and how you can get pregnant through your clothes and it makes a lot of kids scared, and confused.

Thanks for the info :thumb:

 

I was raised Catholic, and from what I gathered we had very little sex-ed information. It was mostly from the family and church. I never heard anything crazy like that.

 

I am morally opposed to contraceptives. I believe that abstinence education puts responsibility on the individual instead of transferring it to a condom. But we can agree at least that abstinence-education needs to be reformed. And we can also agree that better parenting would virtually eliminate the problem.