What she said

 

Unlike RM though, I have been on both sides of this issue. I was as vehemently anti-private as anyone on here as recently as 10 years ago. A long time friend of mine who is a Trinity alum told me that he never thought he would see the day that I wore a Trinity shirt. Another long time friend is still on the public side of the argument and we have gone back and forth a bit. I guess that the point I am trying to make in this ramble is that these are not new issues. The recruiting and district argument has been going on for at least 30 years because I can remember it from then. I changed because I saw first hand how wrong I was about some things. I wonder how many other people would also have a change of heart if they just took the time to really look into what goes on at private schools.

 

You know what they say, "If you can't beat'em, join them."

I have to commend everyone that has posted in this thread. This is most civil thread that I have seen, concerning this topic. Someone else may know of a better one, but this is the best that I have seen.

 

There have been some great insight, and some good topics of discussion. I hope it can continue, and everyone can air their concerns and have questions answered.

Before most of these schools start winning state championships and dominating, they have had some kind of khsaa violation.

 

Please elaborate on this.

 

Specifically, which schools are you calling "most" and what violations did they have before they started winning state championships.

You know what they say, "If you can't beat'em, join them."

 

I look at it more like seeing things from the other side and opening a closed mind.

 

Maybe you should try it.

I do not care how Private schools get their kids, the problem is that public and private do not have the same limitations on kids coming to their school. Example:

Kid a moves in with his sister due to mom and dad having some trouble into a new public district, wants to play football, khsaa says no, he has to sit out a year. Same kid enrolls in the local private school eligible day 1. That is not fair period to kids or schools.

I do not care how Private schools get their kids, the problem is that public and private do not have the same limitations on kids coming to their school. Example:

Kid a moves in with his sister due to mom and dad having some trouble into a new public district, wants to play football, khsaa says no, he has to sit out a year. Same kid enrolls in the local private school eligible day 1. That is not fair period to kids or schools.

 

I don't think that is the case, Shooter.

I do not care how Private schools get their kids, the problem is that public and private do not have the same limitations on kids coming to their school. Example:

Kid a moves in with his sister due to mom and dad having some trouble into a new public district, wants to play football, khsaa says no, he has to sit out a year. Same kid enrolls in the local private school eligible day 1. That is not fair period to kids or schools.

 

I need more particulars to say if what you posted is correct, but let me generally say that the transfer rule for publics and privates is EXACTLY the same and any one who says to the contrary is simply mistaken. That is a fact. Bottom line if a kid in the 9th grade or higher played one second of varsity sports at his/her former school and transfers to another school, the kid is ineligible for a year unless one of the 8 exceptions are satisfied. The KHSAA does not favor publics or privates in seeing if an exception is satisfied. Again, a fact. I've studied that rule as much if not more than anyone on this site. Ask the Ru if you doubt my knowledge on the subject.

It is often pointed out on this board that parents/families of kids at T & X make significant sacrifices for their children to attend private schools, including those who receive some financial aid. There is no way to argue with that point. I think this is a significant factor (not the only one by any means) that leads to the success of private schools in football. The families of these kids a very involved and supportive. When Trinity decides to lift weights before school, the parents get the kids there. Supportive and involved families that are willing to sacrifice for their children must help those children succeed.

 

Having been involved with kids in the public schools for a few years now, my experience is that such families are in short supply. (I'm not saying there are none, but there are alot fewer.) Those types of families are special. That is a big part of what makes private schools great at football and otherwise.

 

I really think you hit on something here. And I concur with what another Poster recently wrote. This has always struck me as an incredible factor. I often feel sorry for opposing teams who play T, with the amount of their fans and fan base (or lack thereof) who show up. I swear that many games there does not appear to be AT LEAST 1 FAN (be it parent, sibling, girlfriend, buddy, etc) FOR EACH PLAYER ON THE SQUAD.. Such a factor is not lost on at least me, and I am sure many of the other T crowd.

 

Attended a game last Fall between two Public Schools - and was able at Kickoff to count the number of fans (25) in the Visitors Stands.

 

Not sure what all this means and says - but it certainly says something to me.

IMHO

I look at it more like seeing things from the other side and opening a closed mind.

 

Maybe you should try it.

 

Not so much a closed mind, I appreciate everything that a private school has to offer. I respect the way they do things. However, the private schools and public schools operate totally different and bottom line is that it creates an uneven playing field for lack of a better term.

 

They are not the same!

This is how I see it:

I think that the advantage that private schools have, and independents to an extent, most of the students, or parents, are there because they want to be. They have more of a sense of ownership of the school. If you make a concerted effort to be at a certain school, then you are going to feel more strongly about that school, then if you are there because it is the only school in the county, or because it is the closest.

 

That's not to say that no one feels strongly about their county school, which many people do, but what I am saying is the percentage is higher at private schools, then independent, and third is the county schools. I have seen this to be accurate for the most part. Not trying to knock any school, just an observation.

 

Ram, I would say that what you have here is generally correct. And IMO there is nothing wrong with it.

 

Here is my question(not specifically directed at you, but just a general one):

Although these things probably have an impact on the playing fields, how do those advantages become unfair? And if there is separation, how would it change these things to "level the playing field"? Are we going to seperate schools into classes of play based upon their school support from administration or community?

You make a good argument for more severe punishments. I would add that the coaches should be severely punished also when found guilty of recruiting.

 

However, it seems to me that pure recruiting is very hard to prove and would be largely based on circumstantial evidence. The KHSAA would have to beef up its legal budget if it moved in this direction.

 

The actions the KHSAA took against LCA indicate to me they had significant evidence warranting punishment. I have a real problem with issuing a fine to the school and a future probationary condition for the program. I think the school can be disciplined however deemed appropriate for failing to have institutional control of financial affairs. But if KHSAA wants to seriously stop this kind of activity, levy the fine against the individual (family) committing the wrongdoing and then ban that individual from athletic participation in any KHSAA sanctioned games/events for the balance of their high school career. Also, seek recovery of the cost of the investigation from the family first before approaching the school. This way, the kids on the school's team who had no involvement are not sharing the punishment, and I guarantee you that any student(family) to which sports participation is important is going to think very seriously about accepting inappropiate assistance (and I don't accept "not knowing I did anything wrong" as a defense) if they know up front that getting caught can mean the end of their high school athletic career. They can still go to the school for the education or any other reason, receive any kind of properly applied for assistance-they just can no longer participate in sports. I think KHSAA's compliance figures would become staggering.

If you pay that type of money to attend a private school, you should have complete confidence in the administration. If they do this type of thing the SCHOOL and ATHLETIC department should pay the price. Even if effects the others that had nothing to do with the situation. Fire those who knowing did this. Punish the coaches and school. You are in this as a team, right. When things go well it is WE are doing all the right things. When things go bad many jump ship and can't understand why those that were not involved have to pay a price. It is because you are apart of a whole, not only the good but also the bad.

Ram, I would say that what you have here is generally correct. And IMO there is nothing wrong with it.?

 

 

I don't see the "having a sense of ownership" thing as being bad. In fact, I see it as a great thing. I made that comment as a praise to schools that, generally, have that. I think if you notice the teams that have a good program, and do well, you will notice that they have that. Everyone wants to be a part of something great, or as close to great as you can get. And if people see what is a great, close knit, loyal fan base, then they want to be part of it.

 

I think that is a reason why there is some animosity among some schools toward other schools. The private schools, generally, have a good following, because people are there, or have their children there because they want to be there, so they are going to be more actively involved in that school. A sense of ownership, this is my school, I choose it, and I am proud to be part of it.

 

To speak of the school that I am closest to: Raceland, for the most part has a good following. I attribute most of that to the fact that a large number of the students are there because they want to be there, or their parents want them to be there. A good percentage of the student body lives outside the district, or the parents moved to the district so their children could attend Raceland. I am not talking about transfers, I mean many of them started at Raceland. Raceland has a very small geographical district, so to attend Raceland you have to either move to a small area, or provide your own transportation, with open enrollment.

 

Many parents that I have spoken with, that have transferred their children to Raceland have told me that if they knew Raceland was the way that it is, they would have started their children there in the first place. And, those parents that have transferred their children to Raceland are the ones who seem to appreciate the school system the most, because they have seen other schools from the inside and know the difference.

 

Here is my question(not specifically directed at you, but just a general one):

Although these things probably have an impact on the playing fields, how do those advantages become unfair??

I feel that they most definitely have an on the field impact. But, I do not think it is unfair, maybe uneven, but, not unfair.

And if there is separation, how would it change these things to "level the playing field"??

I don't think that separation would change this, I hope not. I guess one could argue that if all the schools with a good following were in the same class, then it would be more even, but not me.

Are we going to separate schools into classes of play based upon their school support from administration or community?

Simple fact, some schools will have a better following then others. I don't think we can list all the reasons why, but it happens. There are social/economical reason, personality reasons, geographical reasons, and many more. Separating schools for these reasons would be impossible, and create class with two teams. If people want more support they are going to have to make a difference in their school, or move.

^^^^Like the way you think Ram.:thumb:

^^^^Like the way you think Ram.:thumb:

 

:thumb:I'm hear for ya.