You want a split and nothing will stop you from wanting it. Thats fine. What I want you to understand is that some of the things that I can pick up that you belive about Private schools admissions are just not true. If you acknowledge and understand what is true, but still want a split, then that is just fine.

 

I agree, that I don't have all the facts about admissions. However, there are a few things that really stand out when I look at the two institutions. We can all agree to disagree on some things.

I agree, that I don't have all the facts about admissions. However, there are a few things that really stand out when I look at the two institutions. We can all agree to disagree on some things.

 

Perception is not always reality. The problem is that many people have based thier beliefs on this situation on perceptions that don't match reality. Some people have the perception that Catholic schools grant full financial aid. Tell that to any Catholic school family, and be prepared to have them chuckle loudly. My feeling is that if you truly knew all of the facts and not the perceptions, you would realize that you can't separate everyting evenly into those "2" institutions. You may still want a split, but you might want to adjust those parameters.

I was with you until the last paragraph as I do think those "advantages" can be changed. I wish the public administrators, rather than pushing for a split, would take your above observations to a meeting of all parents of kids attending the public schools and say look: "if you want your kids to be as successful on the field and in the classroom as the kids at the private schools are, then you need to start doing the things the parents at the private schools are doing. You need to get involved in the school; you need to demand your kids pay attention and work hard in the classroom; you need to support us monetarily; you need to support us when we have to discipline your child, not sue us; you need to volunteer at athletic events; you need to find ways to get your kids to and from summer conditioning sessions and encourage him to attend; you need to pressure us for change when the coaches we've hired aren't getting it done; ect. And if you don't do those things, you will be the reason your children do not succeed; not the private schools and I'll be danged if I'm going to participate in any effort to punish the privates when they are the ones doing things right and we're not. That's called lowering the bar folks and I'm not for it."

 

I'm with you 100% on this. However, I think your idea is a largely utopian one. You'd be a fool to think that your going to get the same type of community involvement from Holmes that you get at Highlands, no matter how much you harp on the parents. Simple socioeconomics, some of these parents work 2 jobs or more, and simply don't have the time or money to donate to the program. On the other hand, if you have 6 grand to shell out for tuition, you are also far more likely to have some extra time or money to donate (at least this has been my experience).

 

I also want to point out that I am not saying the privates are "doing it right" or "doing it wrong". I am simply saying that there are inherent advantages to being a private school that enable them to continue to get a leg up on the public schools. It is far easier to give your compelling speech to a room full of people that wish to make things better than it is to people that only wish to complain about the problem.

 

Bottom line is this: There is probably a reason that the parents of private school students can afford the tuition. They think rationally, make sound decisions, are fiscally responsible, etc, etc. The same can not be said of many of their public school counterparts...........I know you'd like to envision them being the same, but there IS a reason they are NOT.

Perception is not always reality. The problem is that many people have based thier beliefs on this situation on perceptions that don't match reality. Some people have the perception that Catholic schools grant full financial aid. Tell that to any Catholic school family, and be prepared to have them chuckle loudly. My feeling is that if you truly knew all of the facts and not the perceptions, you would realize that you can't separate everyting evenly into those "2" institutions. You may still want a split, but you might want to adjust those parameters.

 

I'm sure I would consider that. I have looked at Tennesse and have no problem with what they do. There are private schools in the same division as public.

 

Let me save all of you some time......Don't say go to TN. if you don't like it here. If I could afford that, I may just .......no I can't say that either...hahahah

I'm sure I would consider that. I have looked at Tennesse and have no problem with what they do. There are private schools in the same division as public.

 

Let me save all of you some time......Don't say go to TN. if you don't like it here. If I could afford that, I may just .......no I can't say that either...hahahah

I've looke at what TN does, but don't have a true understanding of it. I know they have a multiplier, and I think a division that deals with Private schools offering financial aid. My question to them would be why the need? Does the State Board of Education lock all Public TN high schools into closed enrollment? If that were the case, then I would have no problem with a multiplier. If all public High Schools in KY were closed enrollment, I would have no problem with the multiplier, ect. But not all KY high schools are closed enrollment, and all have the choice to become open enrollment if they would like. Won't even all inequities Urban/Rural based, but in the sense of enrollment, we do all have the opportunity to choose open enrollment.

I'm with you 100% on this. However, I think your idea is a largely utopian one. You'd be a fool to think that your going to get the same type of community involvement from Holmes that you get at Highlands, no matter how much you harp on the parents. Simple socioeconomics, some of these parents work 2 jobs or more, and simply don't have the time or money to donate to the program. On the other hand, if you have 6 grand to shell out for tuition, you are also far more likely to have some extra time or money to donate (at least this has been my experience).

 

I also want to point out that I am not saying the privates are "doing it right" or "doing it wrong". I am simply saying that there are inherent advantages to being a private school that enable them to continue to get a leg up on the public schools. It is far easier to give your compelling speech to a room full of people that wish to make things better than it is to people that only wish to complain about the problem.

 

Bottom line is this: There is probably a reason that the parents of private school students can afford the tuition. They think rationally, make sound decisions, are fiscally responsible, etc, etc. The same can not be said of many of their public school counterparts...........I know you'd like to envision them being the same, but there IS a reason they are NOT.

 

 

All those things that you mention about private school parents we have in Bell. Mind you we don't all have the money that you speak of ....but the time to spend in their school and love for our children we have. Interest in their education we have. Interest in their athletics, we have. We have all those things here. If it weren't for some of the parents it would be hard. With that said we are still at an disadvantage with the number of athletes private puts on the field through the operating policies for private schools. So I don't buy the time and dedication of parents as the sole reason for success.

All those things that you mention about private school parents we have in Bell. Mind you we don't all have the money that you speak of ....but the time to spend in their school and love for our children we have. Interest in their education we have. Interest in their athletics, we have. We have all those things here. If it weren't for some of the parents it would be hard. With that said we are still at an disadvantage with the number of athlete private puts on the field through the operating policies fo private schools. So I don't buy the time and dedication of parents as the sole reason for success.

 

Bell Co. has more males in the school than Lexington Catholic. How do admissions policy cause us to have a greater number of players on the roster?

Bell Co. has more males in the school than Lexington Catholic. How do admissions policy cause us to have a greater number of players on the roster?

 

Athletes, not players. We can put players on the field.

 

You take kids form many counties. I mentioned this earlier....Our roster will be the same as last year minus 6 seniors and new freshman...Lex Cath lost 33 seniors, but how many will be on there that didn't come from their middle school. I saw in an earlier post that they don't have a middle school football program? How is this possible?

Leatherneck - "a meeting of all parents of kids attending the public schools"

 

This is just not realistic. The parents that need the meeting won't come. That's the point. It's a tremendoud advantage to have families that care, that are willing to sacrifice, etc.

 

A previous post mentioned kids transferring to Trinity for disciplinary reasons in response to the argument that publics can't kick kids out like the privates. The fact is those families recognized the problem and took action to solve it, possibly at great personal sacrifice. I wish all of our kids had this kind of support, but they do not.

 

Publics (at least here in Jefferson County) can remove the very worst students to alternative schools, but those placements are very short term. Nearly all of these placements only last a semester or two. Then the problem student returns to the public school.

 

Let me be clear, I do not believe these issues are the fault of the private schools. Those schools are great. Parents must believe this or they wouldn't pay that kind of money. I will send my children to private schools. I choose to work with public school kids becuase I think they need me more. I'm just saying it is overly simplistic and condescending for private school supporters to say "we just work harder" or "our coaches are just better".

Athletes, not players. We can put players on the field.

 

You take kids form many counties. I mentioned this earlier....Our roster will be the same as last year minus 6 seniors and new freshman...Lex Cath lost 33 seniors, but how many will be on there that didn't come from their middle school. I saw in an earlier post that they don't have a middle school football program? How is this possible?

 

If a parent wants thier child to play on a good team, if they want to send thier kid to a certian school(public or private) for athletic reasons, and they make that choice before high school without any athletic specific recruiting from that school, then it is allowed.

 

We have open enrollment policies. (You can have them too) Any student can come to Lexington Catholic if they live in the boundaries of the Diocese of Lexington. Yes our class of seniors this year was large, but what about the year before that...about 10. This upcomming senior class is also small. Our years seem to be cycling. Of the outgoing seniors, what does it matter if they went to a Catholic Middle School? Proposal 2 is not in effect. Even if it was, it would only cause ineligibility for one year. A student can attend Bell Co. Middle, and then go to Middlesboro, is that any different? A student can go to almost any HS in Jefferson County. No student in the state of Kentucky is locked into going to a specific High School because of where they went to middle or grade school. The parents get to make a choice. If someone feels that certian players are illegally recruited, then bring your proof to Lexington, and I will hold the door open for you on Executive Drive so you can show the KHSAA your info. As for your comment about the Middle School Program, I told you a month ago exactly how it works. Go back and look at the posts in the previous threads.

Let me be clear, I do not believe these issues are the fault of the private schools. Those schools are great. Parents must believe this or they wouldn't pay that kind of money. I will send my children to private schools. I choose to work with public school kids becuase I think they need me more. I'm just saying it is overly simplistic and condescending for private school supporters to say "we just work harder" or "our coaches are just better".

 

I don't like when I hear other Private supporters say this, but I think it is as much a response to some public supporters say the reason private schools are so good is because we recruit the best athletes.

As nice as it is to talk with you, we continue to go in circles. I respect your point of view, but don't agree with it. It simply boils down to boundries and aid with me along with the recruiting of students as a whole school experience. I believe that this is just to different. Why, how, and whose fault ...I believe one thing and you another. I can say this, at Bell we work as hard as anyone and we have just as much parent involvement as you. I look forward to the next time Lex. Cath comes here, I do believe we will see you again next year on Log Mountain again. I don't want to put the cart before the horse, we should. Maybe we meet in the endzone for a coffee.

^^^Thats fine. It just appears to me that not everybody understands that boundaries and aid and student recruitment is not as different as it is played up. Not everything breaks down neatly into public and private.

Valid point that has not been addressed. Please explain it further.

 

What makes us different from the state of Tn. They do it quite well.

 

My argument is the same as the one presented to the KHSAA.

 

What makes us different than Indiana and Ohio? Other than the fact that certain counties continue to build new schools, creating more bureaucracy along the way whenever their enrollment reaches 1500 or so? I believe Trinity and St. X. along with Male, Manual and a few others do well with larger enrollments. Check out Warren Central in Indiana. Check out schools in Texas, Florida, etc.

 

Tennessee's football state finals have really fallen off in attendence since the split and has been well documented in the newspapers and on this chatsite.

 

A majority vote doesn't work in this Association. That's why there is a Board of Control, Board of Education and ultimately, State Legislature to answer to before making such a major change in the by-laws.

I'm with you 100% on this. However, I think your idea is a largely utopian one. You'd be a fool to think that your going to get the same type of community involvement from Holmes that you get at Highlands, no matter how much you harp on the parents. Simple socioeconomics, some of these parents work 2 jobs or more, and simply don't have the time or money to donate to the program. On the other hand, if you have 6 grand to shell out for tuition, you are also far more likely to have some extra time or money to donate (at least this has been my experience).

 

I also want to point out that I am not saying the privates are "doing it right" or "doing it wrong". I am simply saying that there are inherent advantages to being a private school that enable them to continue to get a leg up on the public schools. It is far easier to give your compelling speech to a room full of people that wish to make things better than it is to people that only wish to complain about the problem.

 

Bottom line is this: There is probably a reason that the parents of private school students can afford the tuition. They think rationally, make sound decisions, are fiscally responsible, etc, etc. The same can not be said of many of their public school counterparts...........I know you'd like to envision them being the same, but there IS a reason they are NOT.

 

My view may be utopian; then again your view may be defeatist. And assuming what you say is accurate, looks like we have a lot bigger problems to deal with in public education than worrying about who wins a stinking football game. Perhaps Wilson and the other public school administrators supporting the split need to be spending their time on correcting the issues you identified, even if it means going house to house to meet with parents to explain how they have to be part of the solution to improving public education. I know that would take a lot of time, which is all the more reason they need to get off the private public soapbox. Every minute spent on trying to make the split happen is one less minute they can have to meet with parents.