Middle School Girls B-Ball in the Fall. Title IX Violation?

[HSsportsfan14]

There is a thread in the General Discussion forum about Middle School girls' basketball beginning. I had never heard of school basketball leagues in the fall, but apparently several counties have a league going on right now. It was alluded to in the thread that this is done possibly because of scheduling conflicts with the gym during the traditional basketball season. It seems that at some of the schools, girls are forced to choose between basketball or volleyball in the fall because it frees up gym-time for the boys during the traditional basketball season. I'm not pretending to know all of the ins and outs of Title IX, but isn't this a blatant violation? What are your thoughts?

 

Also, if parents are happy because the fall league allows the girls more practice time than if they played during the winter is it still a violation?

[NEXT]

Not a violation if they are just switched.

 

Basketball in Fall, Volleyball in Spring.

[marooncat]

A lot of the schools who play middle school in the fall like it that way because the girls play on the High School level.If they played middle school in the winter it would be impossible for the girls to play at the High School .

[Lunatic1]

In our County the Volleyball season for MS ends Oct. 1 and the MS girls Basketball usually has their first game around October 20th...they play through the middle of December and then some of the girl play the high school season with the fresh/JV.

 

I saw the thread on General discussion also and I did not know they started basketball that early. Most of our surrounding schools are on the same schedule that we are so I am not sure who would be available to play them.

 

I do not know of any that are switched locally, the boys also follow this same schedule for MS Football and MS basketball.

[ladiesbballcoach]

Does MS even fall under the guidelines of Title IX?

 

And technically, it is as the boys do NOT have the same opportunity to play at the HS level as the girls do. It can go both ways.

[Lunatic1]

Does MS even fall under the guidelines of Title IX?

 

And technically, it is as the boys do NOT have the same opportunity to play at the HS level as the girls do. It can go both ways.

 

In most of the small schools the boys 8th grade at least move up to the freshman teams. I do not like to hear that the girls have to choose since my child does both and loves both sports.

 

Hopefully, this is not true for most of the programs..but gym time is a problem especially when the parks and rec programs are running also.

[highschoolsportsfan]

The most logical reason I have heard for this is that some of the smaller schools would probably not be able to have a girls BB team without the middle schoolers, thus the middle school girls season runs in the fall. No, middle schools do not fall under Title IX guidelines, not as of right now anyway.

[ladiesbballcoach]

My understanding is that this started long before Title IX. They were starting MS girls basketball and had no gym space during the winter months. So they said, hey let's just put the girls in the fall. They did.

 

And then some enterprising girls bball coaches started moving up the MSers to play frosh ball. Then JV ball. And finally V ball.

 

So the boys coaches at a lot of places are now jealous of the girls playing fall ball. GOOD!!!

[imo]

Make sense...after all, look at schools like Deming, Augusta and St. Patrick. Twelve grades sharing one gym for many activities.

[TubbyCAT]

At those mentioned small schools, it is almost IMPOSSIBLE to get in practices, dances, band concerts, choir concerts, meetings, and other school functions in those gyms.

[doubledeuce]

How would it be a title IX issue? Boys are "forced" to choose between soccer and football.

[HSsportsfan14]

How would it be a title IX issue? Boys are "forced" to choose between soccer and football.

 

Both soccer and football are traditionally played during the fall, so it's not an issue. There was some information in a previous thread that alluded to a scheduling discrimation lawsuit in Michigan. Here are the details as posted by ALL PLAY NO WORK in the Middle School Girls' Basketball thread.

 

This past summer, female high school athletes and their parents in Michigan had reason to celebrate when they received a favorable ruling in a case involving the discriminatory scheduling of girls’ sports seasons. The case, Michigan High School Athletic Association v. Communities for Equity, challenges the association’s scheduling of six girls’ sports, and no boys’ sports, in nontraditional seasons.

 

One example of Michigan’s discriminatory scheduling is that while basketball is traditionally played in the winter and volleyball is played in the fall, Michigan girls have to play basketball in the fall and volleyball in the winter. As a result, girls are harmed in ways that boys are not, including: limited opportunities for earning athletic scholarships, playing college sports, playing in club or Olympic Development Programs, and receiving awards and recognition, such as selection for All-American teams. In July, the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals held that the association’s scheduling of girls’ sports was discriminatory and violated the United States Constitution.

 

I also addressed this question on a different thread, so I'll just cut and paste my answer below:

 

There are clear negatives associated with being forced to play in non-traditional seasons. AAU or Junior Olympic teams begin play after the traditional season ends. When athletes are forced to play during non-traditional seasons, they are then forced to make a choice between school ball or AAU ball. Players should not have to choose between these two leagues, as each league offers unique advantages to its players. Also, playing in both leagues gives athletes the opportunity to further hone their skills by playing year-round. Playing in multiple leagues throughout the year also helps to increase exposure for the athletes, which of course is great when it comes to athletic scholarships.

 

I think the key here is that girls' sports are being scheduled in non-traditional seasons, whereas boys' sports are not. Title IX addresses inequities between boys and girls. Non-traditional scheduling for only girls' sports would constitute an obvious inequity. That's where, in my opinion, the Title IX violation comes into play.

 

However, it appears that many of the parents are fine with this non-traditional scheduling of leagues. That brings me back to my initial question. If the majority of parents agree that the non-traditional scheduling is meeting their athletes' needs would it still be considered a violation?

[HSsportsfan14]

No, middle schools do not fall under Title IX guidelines, not as of right now anyway.

 

Actually, after doing a little research, I discovered that all federally funded education programs are protected under Title IX.

 

According to http://www.american.edu: Title IX protects students, faculty and staff in federally funded education programs. Title IX applies to all elementary and secondary schools, colleges and universities. It also applies to programs and activities affiliated with schools that receive federal funds (such as internships or School-to-Work programs) and to federally funded education programs run by other entities such as correctional facilities, health care entities, unions and businesses.

[doubledeuce]

So, if I understand it correctly. If they moved the boys schedule around to make better use of gym time, and it was not during the traditional season that would also be a violation.

[HSsportsfan14]

So, if I understand it correctly. If they moved the boys schedule around to make better use of gym time, and it was not during the traditional season that would also be a violation.

 

That's correct. Title IX is meant to protect BOTH males and females when it comes to inequities in federally funded educational programs and activities.

 

The way I understand it is if the schedules of both boys and girls were switched to non-traditional seasons, then they would be receiving equal treatment. Equal treatment between boys and gilrs would not result in a Title IX violation.