February 13, 200719 yr unless he dratically changes his work ethic. Latch, it is these types of comments that I don't get. Especially from a poster as solid as yourself. What are you basing that on? You follow him around Porter in the fall and winter? You sit in the player's lot at Noon everyday tracking what time folks get there? You spotting him in the weight room? Heck, you can see from a Houston Chronicle article that he worked out all winter with a pitcher from the Astros. You think every major leaguer worked out all winter for the season? I just don't get it.
February 13, 200719 yr Brennanman gives me the creeps! Your woman's intuition isn't letting you down T.D. :thumb:
February 13, 200719 yr How bad exactly are strikeouts? Here is the list of the top 9 National Leaguers last year in terms of strikeouts: Adam Dunn (194) Ryan Howard (181) Bill Hall (162) Alfonso Soriano (160) Jason Bay (156) Mike Cameron (142) Austin Kearns (135) Jeff Francoeur (132) Chase Utley (132) Those nine hitters averaged 35 home runs, 101 runs, 100 RBIs, roughly a .360 on-base percentage and a .524 slugging percentage. Wow, strikeouts sure are an indication of bad hitters. Seriously, I know where you're coming from but lets break this down a little. The Reds absolutely need Dunn to become a guy that knocks in runs as well as scores them. I know you aren't arguing that. Soriano, Cameron, Francoeur, Kearns, and Hall aren't asked to be that guy for their team, Utley is somewhat asked to be that guy but he has Howard to help w/ that role. Dunn has to make the Howard leap for fans to think he's earning his pay. I think the biggest frustration w/ Dunn is that he is perceived to not care or work as hard as people would like. I personally like Dunn and am glad he's a Red. I hope you are right about the 27-30 year old prime for Dunn. I would say it is at best 50/50. I could see something clicking and him making that leap. I could just as easily see his numbers continue to decline.
February 13, 200719 yr Latch, it is these types of comments that I don't get. Especially from a poster as solid as yourself. What are you basing that on? You follow him around Porter in the fall and winter? You sit in the player's lot at Noon everyday tracking what time folks get there? You spotting him in the weight room? Heck, you can see from a Houston Chronicle article that he worked out all winter with a pitcher from the Astros. You think every major leaguer worked out all winter for the season? I just don't get it. You have to agree that there is a great deal of specualtion that he could put in a little more effort. I should have included that it is a lot of specualtion. I do however feel that before this year there were some issues as far as hard work goes.
February 13, 200719 yr Your woman's intuition isn't letting you down T.D. :thumb: Seriously..met him twice at some Reds events. I don't care who he broadcast for..undressing women with your eyes is classless and creepy. Even worse...at his age!!!
February 13, 200719 yr Seriously, I know where you're coming from but lets break this down a little. The Reds absolutely need Dunn to become a guy that knocks in runs as well as scores them. I know you aren't arguing that. Soriano, Cameron, Francoeur, Kearns, and Hall aren't asked to be that guy for their team, Utley is somewhat asked to be that guy but he has Howard to help w/ that role. Dunn has to make the Howard leap for fans to think he's earning his pay. I think the biggest frustration w/ Dunn is that he is perceived to not care or work as hard as people would like. I personally like Dunn and am glad he's a Red. I hope you are right about the 27-30 year old prime for Dunn. I would say it is at best 50/50. I could see something clicking and him making that leap. I could just as easily see his numbers continue to decline. What is the contention now....Should he be an average type of hitter, should he be a HR/RBI guy, SuperStar.... Dunn has been consistent in offensive production, for several years. His batting avg. is not high but he's a RBI/Power producer. Get better power guys for protection around him.
February 13, 200719 yr The thing that drives people crazy about Dunn is it seems as if he doesn't care. No one knows for sure how much time and effort he puts in but himself. I even said it myself earlier.
February 13, 200719 yr You have to agree that there is a great deal of specualtion that he could put in a little more effort. I should have included that it is a lot of specualtion. I do however feel that before this year there were some issues as far as hard work goes. I think Dunn might be one of those players that things come so easily that it does not look like he is giving an effort. He is not a frantic player like a Freel but still can give an effort and come across as not given an effort.
February 13, 200719 yr I think that all of this hubbub over Dunn is silly. I for one only thought that they should have traded him for a stud starter if possible. Since that was not possible, why are we having this argument other than to squelch the sentiments of our liquored up commentator? If you want to argue the merits of a guy with a high price tag, argue about E.Milton. There's bang for your buck!! Dunn is the center of our offense, like it or not. Could he be better? Couldn't they all?
February 13, 200719 yr Latch, it is these types of comments that I don't get. Especially from a poster as solid as yourself. What are you basing that on? You follow him around Porter in the fall and winter? You sit in the player's lot at Noon everyday tracking what time folks get there? You spotting him in the weight room? Heck, you can see from a Houston Chronicle article that he worked out all winter with a pitcher from the Astros. You think every major leaguer worked out all winter for the season? I just don't get it. You're questioning what he said when you "what ifed" Dunn playing until 39. Come on now there is NO CHANCE of a 6'6" 275 guy playing that long.
February 13, 200719 yr His numbers have certainly dropped and Dunn must work on correcting that aspect of his game, which opposing Pitchers/Managers exploit. The suggestion of not going so deep into the count consistently, even though most power hitters are taught that technique, may be the answer. A swing where the right hit doesn't open, or think middle of the field first, may be the answer. As for next season, it's getting close and Spring Training will be a time, to correct certain aspects for Dunn and the entire team. Now, as for Marty saying that about Dunn....His HR's have been consistent the last few years but not many players, approach 130 RBI's....especially since suggesting it is easy, but is more slightly more difficult in reality. You still have not answered the question that I first posed, and then IamFan said as well, and that is how can you say Dunn had no one around him in the lineup when the Reds for most of the years he has been here has been one of the top scoring teams in the NL. That would mean that we had to have people on bases, and well Dunn still has never had that good of RBI numbers, and usually is the WORST one at just being able to have a sac. fly when a guy is on third to score someone. The whole argument saying Dunn hasn't had that good of numbers because he dont have anyone around him is just not true, because he has had guys around him who apparently were able to get it done, because if we were leading the league in runs scored that must mean other people must have been driving in runs since he certaintly has always failed at that... Keeping Dunn around is not going to help this team as much as trading him and maybe getting a decent closer or something for him, because even a decent closer would be better than any closer we have right now and would definitely help out the team alot more than Dunn being here...
February 13, 200719 yr What is the contention now....Should he be an average type of hitter, should he be a HR/RBI guy, SuperStar.... Dunn has been consistent in offensive production, for several years. His batting avg. is not high but he's a RBI/Power producer. Get better power guys for protection around him. You keep saying this. You used to say "starting pitching"....... Make up your mind!!!! They don't have the money to get protection. Dunn had the same numbers (slightly better, but IMO the league figured him out and that has more to do with the fall off than protection). Are you going to fork out the 15 million plus to get that big stick behind Dunn? If I'm Jerry Narron (I'm much smarter especially with baseball!!!), then I bat Dunn 3rd, Edwin 4th (EVERY GAME HE CAN WALK), and Griffey 5th. That would be protection. However, that's 3 defensive liabilities IMO unless Edwin moves to first then it's 2. That isn't small ball, and that isn't money ball and THAT ISN'T HOW YOU WIN IN A SMALL MARKET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
February 13, 200719 yr You keep saying this. You used to say "starting pitching"....... Make up your mind!!!! They don't have the money to get protection. Dunn had the same numbers (slightly better, but IMO the league figured him out and that has more to do with the fall off than protection). Are you going to fork out the 15 million plus to get that big stick behind Dunn? If I'm Jerry Narron (I'm much smarter especially with baseball!!!), then I bat Dunn 3rd, Edwin 4th (EVERY GAME HE CAN WALK), and Griffey 5th. That would be protection. However, that's 3 defensive liabilities IMO unless Edwin moves to first then it's 2. That isn't small ball, and that isn't money ball and THAT ISN'T HOW YOU WIN IN A SMALL MARKET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You claim to know baseball and make that post? Irony at its finest...
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