Democrat Christians

[Frances Bavier]

I hope you mean by Oldbird and not on this board in general.

 

I was speaking specifically of that post.

 

If I were referring to BGP in general, I would have chosen another word with which to begin my reply. :thumb:

 

 

Frances

[Rickyp]

I was speaking specifically of that post.

 

If I were referring to BGP in general, I would have chosen another word with which to begin my reply. :thumb:

 

 

Frances

 

:laugh: :laugh:

[ladiesbballcoach]

A life is a life is a life. Unless the pro-life movement doesn't really practice what it preaches w/re to the "all life is sacred" mantra.

The baby has made no decision on their actions that would hamper their rights or take their life. They made a conscious decision to act as they did and know that taking of a life is punishable in our society with the possibility of having to give up your own life. The baby has made no action or been a part of the decision to end their life.

[ladiesbballcoach]

It doesn't matter for whose sake the act is committed. If indeed "all life is precious," then that means ALL LIFE, no matter if it's a baby, an unborn, a teenager or adult, or someone who's killed 20 people. They're still all human beings.

Yes, absolutely you are correct.

 

And it is one of the saddest days when a person chooses a path of action that results in THEM making the choice to forfeit their life. It is not like the death penalty is put into place AFTER their actions.

 

We could/should have a death penalty that would result in NO ONE ever having their life taken. Not realistic, I know.

 

If the criminals would decide not to continue with their path of action, the death penalty would not be enforced.

[ladiesbballcoach]

Wisdom is spoken here.

 

 

Frances

Did you need me Frances?????

[Jim Schue]

The baby has made no decision on their actions that would hamper their rights or take their life. They made a conscious decision to act as they did and know that taking of a life is punishable in our society with the possibility of having to give up your own life. The baby has made no action or been a part of the decision to end their life.

 

Fine. But don't call yourself pro-life if you're willing to support the death penalty — it's about as contradictory as it gets. Call the movement "anti-abortion" and it's completely consistent.

[ladiesbballcoach]

Fine. But don't call yourself pro-life if you're willing to support the death penalty — it's about as contradictory as it gets. Call the movement "anti-abortion" and it's completely consistent.

I don't see it that way.

 

The criminal who has committed the crime is the one that has forfeited his life and capital punishment can be supported by Scripture. Abortion cannot be supported by Scripture. Or at least none that I am aware of.

[Jim Schue]

I don't see it that way.

 

The criminal who has committed the crime is the one that has forfeited his life and capital punishment can be supported by Scripture. Abortion cannot be supported by Scripture. Or at least none that I am aware of.

 

They're still a human being! Unless you are willing to deny that they are a creation of God.

 

Bottom line: If you support capital punishment, you are pro-death. Anything else is an admittance of and an adherence to illogicality.

[5wide]

I am against both abortion and the death penalty. How's that for consistent? I agree with you Jim. If Bush and company are going to preach this "society of life" mantra, it has to apply across the board, IMO. I also agree with others who state that there is a big difference between abortion and the death penalty. As was stated, criminals are aware that their actions can result in the death penalty, yet they still choose to do what they do. An unborn child has no choice. Major difference, IMO.

 

For me, as a Christian, the thing is this...our ultimate goal is to bring people to salvation through Christ. In that group are sinners of all shapes and sizes, including murderers. By putting someone to death, we are, in a sense, playing God. A person sentenced to life in prison has a long time to make the decision to accept Christ. A person who is executed doesn't. I'm sure the odds are most of these people won't make that decision anyway, but that is no different than the rest of the world. Most of the world probably isn't going to make that decision either. The longer a person lives, maybe they'll make that choice at some point. I certainly don't think these people should ever be allowed back in society, but they could be allowed to live. In prison.

 

Basically, I just don't think that the death penalty is consistent with the New Testament and what Jesus taught. Ultimately, that's what it boils down to for me. I don't necessarily have pity on these people, but that doesn't mean I think it's right.

[ladiesbballcoach]

They're still a human being! Unless you are willing to deny that they are a creation of God.

 

Bottom line: If you support capital punishment, you are pro-death. Anything else is an admittance of and an adherence to illogicality.

 

And yet each person has the right to decide what their life will be.

 

Yes, we all are creations of God but I can decide to give my life to God or not. I can decide to be a teacher and help youth or be a murderer and forfeit my life.

 

So would you say that God is pro-death? Because according to Scripture if you don't accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior you are going to burn for eternity. Or would you say that there is consequences to our actions. Sometimes dire consequences.

 

When Jesus hung on the cross with the two theives he did not rail on capital punishment but rather on where they were going for eternity. He accepted that there was punishment for actions on this planet.

 

Let me also add if the death penalty was outlawed I would not be up in arms about it.

[Jim Schue]

And yet each person has the right to decide what their life will be.

 

Yes, we all are creations of God but I can decide to give my life to God or not. I can decide to be a teacher and help youth or be a murderer and forfeit my life.

 

So would you say that God is pro-death? Because according to Scripture if you don't accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior you are going to burn for eternity. Or would you say that there is consequences to our actions. Sometimes dire consequences.

 

When Jesus hung on the cross with the two theives he did not rail on capital punishment but rather on where they were going for eternity. He accepted that there was punishment for actions on this planet.

 

Let me also add if the death penalty was outlawed I would not be up in arms about it.

 

I think God is both pro-life and pro-death. If he wasn't pro-death, no one would ever die.

 

But all that is immaterial. From a purely logical standpoint, it is inconsistent to say, when arguing against abortion, "I am pro-life," while saying, "I support capital punishment." If you're willing to send another human being to their death, there is nothing "pro-life" about that stance.

[ladiesbballcoach]

I think God is both pro-life and pro-death. If he wasn't pro-death, no one would ever die.

 

But all that is immaterial. From a purely logical standpoint, it is inconsistent to say, when arguing against abortion, "I am pro-life," while saying, "I support capital punishment." If you're willing to send another human being to their death, there is nothing "pro-life" about that stance.

I am not sending anyone anywhere. They choose. They know the consequences and they choose their actions.

 

My son knows if he does not keep up with his assignments he is not on the baseball team anymore. Am I anti-sports? No way. But he has responsibilities and there are consequences to his actions. I LOVE watching him play baseball each and every weekend.

 

But I am also willing to let him suffer the consequences to his actions.

[Jim Schue]

I am not sending anyone anywhere. They choose. They know the consequences and they choose their actions.

 

My son knows if he does not keep up with his assignments he is not on the baseball team anymore. Am I anti-sports? No way. But he has responsibilities and there are consequences to his actions. I LOVE watching him play baseball each and every weekend.

 

But I am also willing to let him suffer the consequences to his actions.

 

You're missing my point.

 

Forget all this stuff about consequences and free will and look at it strictly from the standpoint of the definitions of the words.

 

If you are "pro-life," you don't want anyone to die, no matter if it's Mother Teresa or John Wayne Gacy. Period. If you support the death penalty, you are not "pro-life." You may be "anti-abortion," but as soon as you say you support capital punishment, you are lying to yourself and everyone else if you try to call yourself "pro-life."

[ladiesbballcoach]

You're missing my point.

 

Forget all this stuff about consequences and free will and look at it strictly from the standpoint of the definitions of the words.

 

If you are "pro-life," you don't want anyone to die, no matter if it's Mother Teresa or John Wayne Gacy. Period. If you support the death penalty, you are not "pro-life." You may be "anti-abortion," but as soon as you say you support capital punishment, you are lying to yourself and everyone else if you try to call yourself "pro-life."

I understand your point, I just don't accept it.

 

I am not taking their life, they are forfeiting it.

 

I do agree that I don't want anyone to die. I don't want anyone to have to suffer through capital punishment.

 

But I also I cannot control everyone and what decisions they make. I also understand that there HAS to be consequences for people who want to step out of the laws that society has agreed upon. And I am willing to accept that. Do I like it? Not in the least.

[Jim Schue]

I understand your point, I just don't accept it.

 

I am not taking their life, they are forfeiting it.

 

I do agree that I don't want anyone to die. I don't want anyone to have to suffer through capital punishment.

 

But I also I cannot control everyone and what decisions they make. I also understand that there HAS to be consequences for people who want to step out of the laws that society has agreed upon. And I am willing to accept that. Do I like it? Not in the least.

 

How hard is it to call a spade a spade and just say, "I'm anti-abortion?"