If his past is allowed to be used against him, her's sure as hell should be allowed to be used against her...

If his past is allowed to be used against him, her's sure as hell should be allowed to be used against her...

 

My point earlier was did she know of his past if she ran his plates? That may put her on guard at a higher level when she encountered him. And I guarantee her past comes up if it goes to court.

My point earlier was did she know of his past if she ran his plates? That may put her on guard at a higher level when she encountered him. And I guarantee her past comes up if it goes to court.

 

Maybe she did, maybe she didn't, either way it has no bearing on what happened during this specific incident.

I'm not against the past being used , not at all . But if level minded adults using their common sense cant see a difference between resisting arrest with a weapon and serving time in prison VS being accused of harassing phone calls to a ex boyfriend's girlfriend I don't know how we can ever have sensible debate over anything at all.

Maybe she did, maybe she didn't, either way it has no bearing on what happened during this specific incident.

 

I'm guessing his not adhering to her commands had more to do with the escalation of the situation. Or was it her violent past that did?

Hopefully this is a legit list as everything posted on the net is not true - Here is the guys rap sheet . Not that he could be a bad dude

He also had a history of resisting arrest. Behold the rap sheet:

 

1996 Shooting with intent to kill — Dismissed

2001 Petit larceny — Conviction

2004 Driving while suspended — Conviction

2005 Driving while suspended, resisting officer — Conviction

2006 Driving while suspended — Conviction

Driving with open container — Dismissed

2006 Trafficking in illegal drugs — Conviction. (He was also charged in that incident with assault on a police officer and resisting, but that was dismissed.)

2011 Public intoxication (while in prison for drug trafficking) — Conviction

2012 Public intoxication — Conviction

Obstructing an officer — Conviction

2013 DUI — Conviction

Resisting officer — Conviction

Open Container — Conviction

Failure to wear seatbelt — Conviction

Speeding — Conviction

 

The article that I read that had this list on it sounded pretty suspicious. It aid that he had spent 9 years in jail and was just released in January. I'm not seeing how he could have done that abs had a 2013 DUI conviction. I'm not saying he didn't have a record but I don't think they had everything correct in the article.

I'm not against the past being used , not at all . But if level minded adults using their common sense cant see a difference between resisting arrest with a weapon and serving time in prison VS being accused of harassing phone calls to a ex boyfriend's girlfriend I don't know how we can ever have sensible debate over anything at all.

 

I am using my common sense. She has domestic vandalism against her, drug use and harrassment that has been reported or placed on her record. Did she get away with anymore than that? And yet she qualified for the police academy?

 

Truth is that we all have a bad past somewhere that could be brought up against us. The deceased and the officer. But what matters is what happened in that few minutes on a Tulsa road.

I did some research on this entire thread and can't find the link from NBS stating the past was being looked into concerning the cop . So I googled the article and the writer appears to have edited the piece . There was definitely mention of the deceased being a " peaceful church going man" to paraphrase , but that exact article by the same NBC writer Dakshayani Shankar now has no mention of this . Strange .

My point earlier was did she know of his past if she ran his plates? That may put her on guard at a higher level when she encountered him. And I guarantee her past comes up if it goes to court.

 

Maybe she did, maybe she didn't, either way it has no bearing on what happened during this specific incident.

 

Actually, it may very well have had a bearing on what happened. Now, it might not HELP her if it goes to court, but it absolutely very well could have had a bearing on what happened IF she knew his history.

 

I'm a cop, I pull over 60 yo Granny Smith for speeding. Granny Smith was sited 3 years ago for driving without her glasses.

 

I pull over Johnny Ray Jones for speeding. Mr. Jones has spent time in jail for aggravated assault and drug charges, and has about 10 other arrests ranging from DUI to terroristic threatening, weapons charges and resisting arrest.

 

You don't think my perception of Mr. Jones and Ms. Smith are different and my senses aren't at least slightly heightened with Mr. Jones? All of which could change how I possibly react to a given situation?

Duece are you really going to even attempt to equate the rap sheet of the guy VS the stuff above against the cop ? Harassing phone calls which was rescinded and complaints that had no evidence VS several drug charges , a few resisting arrest , a prison sentence and the lil bit about attempting to draw a weapon from a sock on a LEO ? Really .. you better rush to Charlotte , raise the fist and join in .

 

I didn't attempt to equate anything, but we are not going to talk about one and not the other. Harassment and excessive force complaints? There's a pattern here.

 

If the victims rap sheet is relevant, so is Shelby's.

Actually, it may very well have had a bearing on what happened. Now, it might not HELP her if it goes to court, but it absolutely very well could have had a bearing on what happened IF she knew his history.

 

I'm a cop, I pull over 60 yo Granny Smith for speeding. Granny Smith was sited 3 years ago for driving without her glasses.

 

I pull over Johnny Ray Jones for speeding. Mr. Jones has spent time in jail for aggravated assault and drug charges, and has about 10 other arrests ranging from DUI to terroristic threatening, weapons charges and resisting arrest.

 

You don't think my perception of Mr. Jones and Ms. Smith are different and my senses aren't at least slightly heightened with Mr. Jones? All of which could change how I possibly react to a given situation?

 

I'm saying it has no bearing on whether this was a justified shooting or not.

I'm not against the past being used , not at all . But if level minded adults using their common sense cant see a difference between resisting arrest with a weapon and serving time in prison VS being accused of harassing phone calls to a ex boyfriend's girlfriend I don't know how we can ever have sensible debate over anything at all.

 

Nobody has said they are the same.

 

They both, however, have questionable pasts.

 

Like I said, I'm not going to allow you to post the victims and crucify him with it and then ignore Shelby's.

I'm saying it has no bearing on whether this was a justified shooting or not.

 

:thumb: Got ya.

I'm saying it has no bearing on whether this was a justified shooting or not.

I have to disagree.

 

If he has a history of fighting police officers while armed and resisting arrest and he continually ignored officer commands while going back to his vehicle and then tries to reach in the vehicle, the perceived threat by the officers has just increased.

 

The fact that two officers perceived the same threat to their lives and fired almost simultaneously seems to back this up.

I have to disagree.

 

If he has a history of fighting police officers while armed and resisting arrest and he continually ignored officer commands while going back to his vehicle and then tries to reach in the vehicle, the perceived threat by the officers has just increased.

 

The fact that two officers perceived the same threat to their lives and fired almost simultaneously seems to back this up.

 

I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. His and the officer's actions alone during THIS incident are what determine if this was a justified shooting. He was not shot, or at least he shouldn't have been, for past transgressions.