This is all too much for me. I'll just hold it and go when I get home. I hate using public restrooms anyway.

You are correct...and I never meant to imply that all transgenders take ALL the steps I mentioned. But my point still stands. It's not easy to convincingly fake your gender without bringing even more attention to yourself. If it were, there would many, many cases of crimes being committed in bathrooms by people faking their gender. There simply are not. We DO have many cases of people committing crimes while in the correct bathroom. We have many incidents of sexual abuse and hazing by those of the same sex in locker rooms. The cross dresser committing crimes in the wrong bathroom is a boogeyman that doesn't exist.

 

You are ignoring the point I've made over and over. I've never stated there is an epidemic of transgender people going to commit crimes. That is irrelevant.

 

Opening the flood gates to allow people of the opposite sex into the opposite restroom opens the flood gates for pervs who probably in almost every case isn't transgender.

 

How would you legally define a transgender person ? If allow a transgender person who is still biologically a man to use it , how could I stop any man who claims to identify as a woman ?

 

Like I said there are criteria we can use to define gender biologically , there is no legal criteria for transgender.

 

This goes back to my point we either stay with societal norm or make all restrooms unisex.

 

This isn't a huge issue for me. I just get annoyed when I see terms liked bigotry and discrimination thrown around. When I think if a proper discussion is had we can see there are legit concerns are legal issues to work through.

You are ignoring the point I've made over and over. I've never stated there is an epidemic of transgender people going to commit crimes. That is irrelevant.

 

Opening the flood gates to allow people of the opposite sex into the opposite restroom opens the flood gates for pervs who probably in almost every case isn't transgender.

 

How would you legally define a transgender person ? If allow a transgender person who is still biologically a man to use it , how could I stop any man who claims to identify as a woman ?

 

Like I said there are criteria we can use to define gender biologically , there is no legal criteria for transgender.

 

This goes back to my point we either stay with societal norm or make all restrooms unisex.

 

This isn't a huge issue for me. I just get annoyed when I see terms liked bigotry and discrimination thrown around. When I think if a proper discussion is had we can see there are legit concerns are legal issues to work through.

 

First, I haven't used "bigotry" or "discrimination" even once in this thread.

 

Second, you've also ignored my main points. The first of which is in regards to opening the floodgates. There simply has never been an issue with people using the wrong restroom to commit crimes, especially the main concern that has been mentioned...people cross dressing to gain access. Again, there are plenty of incidents of same sex assaults in bathrooms and locker rooms. Where is the outrage or new laws to address/prevent that problem, which DOES happen.

 

2nd is the enforcement. You raise the point "you can't tell who is transgender and who isn't". How does any law suddenly make it possible to determine who belongs and who doesn't? It works both ways. Let's say the law is in place. Person A looks kind of like a dude and tries to enter the ladies bathroom. What is the next step?? How do you confirm that person does or doesn't belong?? Who is going to make that confirmation? What's the penalty if your suspicions are right? And God forbid, what if you're wrong? And along those lines, what is the penalty under current laws??

First, I haven't used "bigotry" or "discrimination" even once in this thread.

 

Second, you've also ignored my main points. The first of which is in regards to opening the floodgates. There simply has never been an issue with people using the wrong restroom to commit crimes, especially the main concern that has been mentioned...people cross dressing to gain access. Again, there are plenty of incidents of same sex assaults in bathrooms and locker rooms. Where is the outrage or new laws to address/prevent that problem, which DOES happen.

 

2nd is the enforcement. You raise the point "you can't tell who is transgender and who isn't". How does any law suddenly make it possible to determine who belongs and who doesn't? It works both ways. Let's say the law is in place. Person A looks kind of like a dude and tries to enter the ladies bathroom. What is the next step?? How do you confirm that person does or doesn't belong?? Who is going to make that confirmation? What's the penalty if your suspicions are right? And God forbid, what if you're wrong? And along those lines, what is the penalty under current laws??

 

To your last point so we do not make it a societal norm . If there are transgenders using the bathrooms now fine . No one is going to police it or do anything differently.

 

It's about creating a legal precedent with current events. People suing businesses who do not have transgender bathrooms or unisex. People suing schools districts for the same.

 

I'm of the belief is a business wants to accomdate to transgender people that is their right on the bathroom situation , I also don't think a business should be forced to either. There is a climate out there pushing a charge in that directions. These laws are a direct result of those group people.

 

Also a direct result of people pushing it in school districts.

 

The point you keep saying over and over about how you can "prove"again is irrelevant.

 

If we open said floodgates identification is irrelevant. I don't get why you keep missing that point. I wouldn't need to dree differently I could go in my suit and tie because there is no way legally under the law to define transgender so all bathrooms become unisex.

 

I feel I need to repeat that last point over and over because it's make your last response irrelevant.

 

No one is calling for police to investigate bathrooms. It's an entire overstatement of the laws.

To your last point so we do not make it a societal norm . If there are transgenders using the bathrooms now fine . No one is going to police it or do anything differently.

 

It's about creating a legal precedent with current events. People suing businesses who do not have transgender bathrooms or unisex. People suing schools districts for the same.

 

I'm of the belief is a business wants to accomdate to transgender people that is their right on the bathroom situation , I also don't think a business should be forced to either. There is a climate out there pushing a charge in that directions. These laws are a direct result of those group people.

 

Also a direct result of people pushing it in school districts.

 

The point you keep saying over and over about how you can "prove"again is irrelevant.

 

If we open said floodgates identification is irrelevant. I don't get why you keep missing that point. I wouldn't need to dree differently I could go in my suit and tie because there is no way legally under the law to define transgender so all bathrooms become unisex.

 

I feel I need to repeat that last point over and over because it's make your last response irrelevant.

 

No one is calling for police to investigate bathrooms. It's an entire overstatement of the laws.

 

Ok. So is the law to protect little girls (since any law does zero to protect little boys from predators, who are overwhelmingly male) from predators, or is it to protect businesses??

 

Regarding identification. I'm more than aware that identification becomes unnecessary should we just allow transgenders into the bathroom of their choice. That's part of my point for not needing laws preventing transgenders from using the bathroom they want. However, if laws preventing transgenders from using the bathroom of their choice ARE passed, identification DOES become an issue. How can it not?? And if no one is going to enforce it or investigate "violations", what's the point of the law. Or going back to the first point, is it just so companies can say "hey, we had a sign" and to make sure they are absolved from litigation should a crime occur.

Ok. So is the law to protect little girls (since any law does zero to protect little boys from predators, who are overwhelmingly male) from predators, or is it to protect businesses??

 

Regarding identification. I'm more than aware that identification becomes unnecessary should we just allow transgenders into the bathroom of their choice. That's part of my point for not needing laws preventing transgenders from using the bathroom they want. However, if laws preventing transgenders from using the bathroom of their choice ARE passed, identification DOES become an issue. How can it not?? And if no one is going to enforce it or investigate "violations", what's the point of the law. Or going back to the first point, is it just so companies can say "hey, we had a sign" and to make sure they are absolved from litigation should a crime occur.

 

Again I don't think anyone is calling for policing bathrooms. It's about precedent. As I've stated these laws didn't come from anywhere every action has a reaction. There were different pushes from the opposite side that lead people to feel this necessary whether to protect individuals from actual harm or lawsuits.

 

Again I emphasize I believe this should be decided by individual businesses and let the market decide. I'm not a huge fan of more laws but sum see the need because of the push of the opposite spectrum.

 

But let's say we remove the idea any danger both physical or monetarily from the equation.

 

Let's think from a logically standpoint on unisex bathrooms in a practical sense. Sure at a family restaurant , a public space those type of place no inherent risk or minimal.

 

But just a couple scenarios at the top of my head , what about an NFL stadium on a drunken Sunday would there be large chunks of women uncomfortable using the same restroom as men.

 

College bars on a weekends to much to drink . The opposite restrooms did seem as a safe zone to get away.

 

Just different societal functions where I understand some or most people may feel uncomfortable sharing a restroom at work with the opposite sex.

 

If this were just about transgenders it probably would be a non issue. It's the unisex bathrooms that is the only logical outcome from this , is where I see issues.

 

Also to answer your orginal question don't most identificaton cards list gender ?

Again I don't think anyone is calling for policing bathrooms. It's about precedent. As I've stated these laws didn't come from anywhere every action has a reaction. There were different pushes from the opposite side that lead people to feel this necessary whether to protect individuals from actual harm or lawsuits.

 

Again I emphasize I believe this should be decided by individual businesses and let the market decide. I'm not a huge fan of more laws but sum see the need because of the push of the opposite spectrum.

 

But let's say we remove the idea any danger both physical or monetarily from the equation.

 

Let's think from a logically standpoint on unisex bathrooms in a practical sense. Sure at a family restaurant , a public space those type of place no inherent risk or minimal.

 

But just a couple scenarios at the top of my head , what about an NFL stadium on a drunken Sunday would there be large chunks of women uncomfortable using the same restroom as men.

 

College bars on a weekends to much to drink . The opposite restrooms did seem as a safe zone to get away.

 

Just different societal functions where I understand some or most people may feel uncomfortable sharing a restroom at work with the opposite sex.

 

If this were just about transgenders it probably would be a non issue. It's the unisex bathrooms that is the only logical outcome from this , is where I see issues.

 

Also to answer your orginal question don't most identificaton cards list gender ?

 

It seems (at least to me) that where we disagree is whether or not a bunch of dudes will start simply using the ladies because they "can". You believe they will. I don't. Can you imagine the reception a dude will get if he walks into a crowded ladies room in any of the situations you mention?? It won't be pretty. And no way will he get a chance to peek in on any lady doing her business. Any guy brave enough to try, is going to find out pretty quickly that the ladies room is no place for guys to be and that they aren't welcome. And there's zero chance he'll have an opportunity to commit some crime. The social norms and practices are strong enough that people aren't regularly going to try to cross that line.

 

Besides, at bars and sporting events the lines for the ladies room are way too long....you'll have to be a patient criminal in order to even attempt anything. And for what it's worth, I've seen ladies using the men's room in crowded bars and sporting events at least a dozen times to avoid those lines. Women are way more welcome in the men's room than the other way around.

 

As far as ID, yes, most id's do have the sex of the individual listed. I have no problem showing id to get into bars, to vote, to buy beer, get on a plane, etc. But I'm not, and I'm guessing most will not be happy showing ID to enter or exit a bathroom. And I certainly don't want to be the guy (or gal) at the door checking ID's of any one that is questionable.

Again I don't think anyone is calling for policing bathrooms. It's about precedent. As I've stated these laws didn't come from anywhere every action has a reaction. There were different pushes from the opposite side that lead people to feel this necessary whether to protect individuals from actual harm or lawsuits.

 

Again I emphasize I believe this should be decided by individual businesses and let the market decide. I'm not a huge fan of more laws but sum see the need because of the push of the opposite spectrum.

 

But let's say we remove the idea any danger both physical or monetarily from the equation.

 

Let's think from a logically standpoint on unisex bathrooms in a practical sense. Sure at a family restaurant , a public space those type of place no inherent risk or minimal.

 

But just a couple scenarios at the top of my head , what about an NFL stadium on a drunken Sunday would there be large chunks of women uncomfortable using the same restroom as men.

College bars on a weekends to much to drink . The opposite restrooms did seem as a safe zone to get away.

 

Just different societal functions where I understand some or most people may feel uncomfortable sharing a restroom at work with the opposite sex.

 

If this were just about transgenders it probably would be a non issue. It's the unisex bathrooms that is the only logical outcome from this , is where I see issues.

 

Also to answer your orginal question don't most identificaton cards list gender ?

 

To your the first bolded, woo hoo! Do you know how many times I've really needed to go and looked at the line to the mens room and it's been soooo much shorter?

 

On a more serious note, for the second bolded, I'm going to need to show my ID to pee?

To your the first bolded, woo hoo! Do you know how many times I've really needed to go and looked at the line to the mens room and it's been soooo much shorter?

 

On a more serious note, for the second bolded, I'm going to need to show my ID to pee?

 

Ummm...I am raising my hand as one who HAS used a men's restroom in the past. There simply was no other option, other than peeing on myself. I asked first...the most awkward part of the process... and they said sure. No one seemed to mind. We all did our thing and left. No rapes, no lewd stares by anyone....just a fee people peeing and washing their hands and going about their separate ways.

Ummm...I am raising my hand as one who HAS used a men's restroom in the past. There simply was no other option, other than peeing on myself. I asked first...the most awkward part of the process... and they said sure. No one seemed to mind. We all did our thing and left. No rapes, no lewd stares by anyone....just a fee people peeing and washing their hands and going about their separate ways.

 

Evidently, you were breaking the law. Who knew? :lol2:

Evidently, you were breaking the law. Who knew? :lol2:

 

I knew I had violated societal mores...but I don't remember feeling like a fugitive after...

I'm confused. If I was concerned for my child's safety in a bathroom I'd go into the bathroom with them. Is this another sign of how lazy our society is becoming? People are mad because they can't send their kids into the bathroom by themselves? I'm amazed at how much of an issue this is becoming. People are boycotting Target because of bathroom safety? :no:

I'm confused. If I was concerned for my child's safety in a bathroom I'd go into the bathroom with them. Is this another sign of how lazy our society is becoming? People are mad because they can't send their kids into the bathroom by themselves? I'm amazed at how much of an issue this is becoming. People are boycotting Target because of bathroom safety? :no:

 

It is not just kids. PP, if your wife goes into a public restroom and you watch a dude walk in right after her, what would you do ? Just assume everything is OK?

 

I am not trying to be funny...just seriously asking the question.

It is not just kids. PP, if your wife goes into a public restroom and you watch a dude walk in right after her, what would you do ? Just assume everything is OK?

 

I am not trying to be funny...just seriously asking the question.

 

Again, the ladies restroom is not a friendly place for men. There's a reason guys don't just walk in there now...and it has nothing to do with laws.

 

Also, how does everyone feel when a guy walks in the restroom after their young son?? Everyone is scared to death about wives and daughters, despite the fact that assaults don't happen now with no laws preventing guys from going in ladies rooms, no cases exist of guys dressing as women to gain access and assaulting women, and fact that ladies rooms are very unfriendly for men. But yet, there are cases of boys being assaulted in men's rooms by men (anyone remember Jerry Sandusky). Not one person has expressed the fact that young male children are just as much, if not more at risk in bathrooms than wives and daughters. And no law preventing transgenders from entering the "wrong" restroom changes that. I'd say young boys are safer in the ladies room than in the men's room, since the vast majority of sex offenders are men.

The answer