Leaving her could have been an option. We all agree she should have left the room when her teacher asked her. She didn't. There are ways to handle it, without violence, since she was posing no threat. And this is off the top of my head, the teacher could have called her parents, could have said, "well, if you are going to act this way, we are going to leave you here", and had the rest of the students go to the cafeteria. Now, would that have disrupted the class, and whatever lesson was planned for the day? Yep, absolutely. But it would have also taught the kids that violence is not the answer to every problem, and that would have been a decent lesson.

As it happened, the kids got front row seats to using violence to solve a problem.

I might have missed it, but no one has mentioned the risk of serious injury that the officer did to the girl? He slammed her down on the floor while in a chair, and then threw her across the floor, both acts pose a serious risk of harm in that a person could hit the floor awkwardly.

Are we so desirous of teaching our kids respect for authority, that we are willing to send our kids to school and have them subjected the violence and the risk of serious physical injury for the offense of being -gasp- a sullen teenager?

If the teacher got frustrated and was doing that to the teen, and then the officer came in and shot the guy as a defense to her, I think there would be near unanimous support for the shooting as we would all see that the girl was being assaulted and subjected to the risk of serious harm.

The world is full of sullen and misbehaving teenagers. There are better ways to teach them respect than by beating it into them.

I concur that "violence is not the answer", but something doesn't seem correct about removing the entirety of a class because of one student's actions, or inaction in this case.

Probably a 50/50 shot...maybe even less than that, that calling the parents would have done anything much at all...but I can tell you what my dad would have told the teacher/officer if I had done what that girl did..."take him out of that room any way you need to".

 

 

You don't know her parents. So you come up with your 50/50 observation based on what? This one incident involving her? Show me a teenager with perfect behavior. You really have no basis for judging what her parents might have done had they been called. And even if you did, what does it cost to make that effort before we allow are children to be slammed to the ground and then thrown across the floor? Even if her parents are no help at all, at the very least it teaches the rest of the kids that efforts are made.

Just so we are clear, this child, and she is a child, posed zero threat of physical harm. None. And we are justifying using physical force on her? Force that could have paralyzed her? Or given her a concussion? Really? C'mon people. Put down your guard for a second and think this out. There was no need for any force on her. Was she right, of course not. For those of you that think this is about respect for authority, then let us have the authority act in way that is deserving of respect.

It won't hurt any of you to simply re-think this and see that this use of force was unnecessary and uncalled for. You can still be gungho about all your world views even if you simply say "yeah, he should not have done that."

 

Be nice until it's time to not be nice.

 

Let's just continue the coddling of our children and condoning not respecting authority, yeah, that's the way to go with it.

 

Doesn't matter if she posed zero threat or not. She was given an order by the teacher and the officer, she refused to obey, she got punished.

 

If the teacher doesn't call the officer, the message to the other kids is worse.

If the officer doesn't physically remove her, the message to the other kids is worse.

 

He didn't do it the right way, but he did the right thing.

I concur that "violence is not the answer", but something doesn't seem correct about removing the entirety of a class because of one student's actions, or inaction in this case.

 

Maybe so, I was really just spitballing ideas. I mean, a child is sitting in a chair. There has to be a solution(s) to this that don't involve picking her up and slamming her to the ground, and then throwing her across the floor. You agree about the violence not being the answer, I can live with the notion that the cafeteria move might not be the answer either.

Be nice until it's time to not be nice.

 

WWDD: What would Dalton do

 

Nice Roadhouse reference

You don't know her parents. So you come up with your 50/50 observation based on what? This one incident involving her? Show me a teenager with perfect behavior. You really have no basis for judging what her parents might have done had they been called. And even if you did, what does it cost to make that effort before we allow are children to be slammed to the ground and then thrown across the floor? Even if her parents are no help at all, at the very least it teaches the rest of the kids that efforts are made.

 

Based on experience dealing with kids and overall parenting in society today.

 

There are no "perfect" kids...I know hat as well as any body on this site, and I'd say probably know it better than most. I know even "good" kids do stupid stuff and make mistakes, but most "good kids" that I know also would not have been this defiant and done what this girl did that lead to this event. Again, I don't know this for a fact, but just from this one event I can make a pretty good educated guess that this kid has been trouble before. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd bet I'm right.

Maybe so, I was really just spitballing ideas. I mean, a child is sitting in a chair. There has to be a solution(s) to this that don't involve picking her up and slamming her to the ground, and then throwing her across the floor. You agree about the violence not being the answer, I can live with the notion that the cafeteria move might not be the answer either.

 

I offered the solution of admin carrying or scooting the chair out the door into the hallway where it could then be handled away from the class.

I don't think this was an attempt at all to fix a social problem. I think it was a problem that affected the other students in the classroom that was alleviated. That student's social problems can be handled by the administration finding her some help in another venue than a public school if they aren't appropriately equipped to do so.

 

I think it's hard to segregate the two things. The issue is a behavior problem in the classroom. The way it was corrected was through physical force. It's as much a lesson to the rest of the class as it is to her. And I know a lot of people here are saying that because of that it will fix the problem, but in my mind they all learned the wrong lesson.

 

I don't know what causes students to act like this, but I think at least part of it is attention-seeking. And she was aptly rewarded. Any other student curious how to get a rise out of the teacher or administration just found out which buttons to push and what kind of reaction they'll get. As for the rest of the students I doubt their lesson was "wow, I better walk the line" but "wow, I can't believe they did that to her." So, physical force solved the short-term problem of getting the kid out of the classroom, but I think it makes things worse in the long run. That's without considering the ramifications of tossing students into the criminal justice system too. I don't think that's a winner either.

And by the way, there was a time, years ago when no police presence was in the classroom, that a hard butt teacher or principle would have done something similar to this, especially to a young man. Would have snatched them up out of that chair and hauled them to the office. Of course, that's back in the day when people were taught to have more respect for authority, and that if you made a messy bed...well...you were gonna sleep in it.

I think it's hard to segregate the two things. The issue is a behavior problem in the classroom. The way it was corrected was through physical force. It's as much a lesson to the rest of the class as it is to her. And I know a lot of people here are saying that because of that it will fix the problem, but in my mind they all learned the wrong lesson.

 

I don't know what causes students to act like this, but I think at least part of it is attention-seeking. And she was aptly rewarded. Any other student curious how to get a rise out of the teacher or administration just found out which buttons to push and what kind of reaction they'll get. As for the rest of the students I doubt their lesson was "wow, I better walk the line" but "wow, I can't believe they did that to her." So, physical force solved the short-term problem of getting the kid out of the classroom, but I think it makes things worse in the long run. That's without considering the ramifications of tossing students into the criminal justice system too. I don't think that's a winner either.

I totally understand your position. And we speculate without any history of behavior of the student. And as I've stated, I think that it could have been handled differently, but at some point she needed extracted from that room and that desk. As for how the other students perceived the incident, I bet is was a blend of both, and some of that may have been their knowledge of her behavioral history as well.

Suggestion.

 

Officer and teacher pick up the desk and take it to the hallway with her in it. Then deal with it outside.

 

Good way to get yourself a kick in the knee and/or groin.

Edited October 27, 201510 yr by MJAlltheWay24

The Use-of-Force Continuum | National Institute of Justice

Even for those who believe, (smh) that the force was justified, the steps the officer took to get there were wrong. He said something like "Either you are going to move or I am going to move you." According to the force continuum, he should have been less confrontational. Even for those of you who think what he did was fine, you simply can't deny that he could have tried, even briefly, to engage her in a non-confrontational way. "Sally, I have been called here because you are not following directions. I understand you might be upset about something, why don't you come out in the hall and talk to me about it. I don't want to have to force you to leave, so why don't we just go outside and talk?"

Would that have worked? Who knows? But something like that is called for in the use of force continuum which is a thing created by law enforcement, not raging liberals.

Question: Once an officer decides to make an arrest, does he have the right to arrest with any means necessary? Again I ask, would a tazer make more sense in this situation?

He didn't do it the right way, but he did the right thing.

 

That's the issue, right? Just because you do the right thing doesn't mean you can do it without repercussions. What if he punched her in the face? He was doing the right thing by getting her to leave but....there's a limit. What's the limit?

Question: Once an officer decides to make an arrest, does he have the right to arrest with any means necessary? Again I ask, would a tazer make more sense in this situation?

 

I would say the answer to your first question is "no."

 

Tazer would be excessive.