The Use-of-Force Continuum | National Institute of Justice

Even for those who believe, (smh) that the force was justified, the steps the officer took to get there were wrong. He said something like "Either you are going to move or I am going to move you." According to the force continuum, he should have been less confrontational. Even for those of you who think what he did was fine, you simply can't deny that he could have tried, even briefly, to engage her in a non-confrontational way. "Sally, I have been called here because you are not following directions. I understand you might be upset about something, why don't you come out in the hall and talk to me about it. I don't want to have to force you to leave, so why don't we just go outside and talk?"

Would that have worked? Who knows? But something like that is called for in the use of force continuum which is a thing created by law enforcement, not raging liberals.

 

I would be be curious to hear from LEO as to how they are trained? Are they trained in this approach? I would guess most are not.

Leaving her could have been an option. We all agree she should have left the room when her teacher asked her. She didn't. There are ways to handle it, without violence, since she was posing no threat. And this is off the top of my head, the teacher could have called her parents, could have said, "well, if you are going to act this way, we are going to leave you here", and had the rest of the students go to the cafeteria. Now, would that have disrupted the class, and whatever lesson was planned for the day? Yep, absolutely. But it would have also taught the kids that violence is not the answer to every problem, and that would have been a decent lesson.

As it happened, the kids got front row seats to using violence to solve a problem.

I might have missed it, but no one has mentioned the risk of serious injury that the officer did to the girl? He slammed her down on the floor while in a chair, and then threw her across the floor, both acts pose a serious risk of harm in that a person could hit the floor awkwardly.

Are we so desirous of teaching our kids respect for authority, that we are willing to send our kids to school and have them subjected the violence and the risk of serious physical injury for the offense of being -gasp- a sullen teenager?

If the teacher got frustrated and was doing that to the teen, and then the officer came in and shot the guy as a defense to her, I think there would be near unanimous support for the shooting as we would all see that the girl was being assaulted and subjected to the risk of serious harm.

The world is full of sullen and misbehaving teenagers. There are better ways to teach them respect than by beating it into them.

 

That's a beautiful liberal response. Lets move everyone else and accommodate this "victim".

For the record I don't buy into this modern thought that corporal punishment has no place in today's society. All these fake studies that say cuddling kids is the best is a joke.

 

I won't shed one tear for a kid who has no respect for authority and back talks and disrupts class and then is made uncomfortable for doing so.

That's a beautiful liberal response. Lets move everyone else and accommodate this "victim".

 

I literally couldn't stop laughing when I read that response as well.

 

Maybe we should buy her a cookie and pat her on the head to , and let her know it's not her fault she doesn't respect authority.

Question: Once an officer decides to make an arrest, does he have the right to arrest with any means necessary? Again I ask, would a tazer make more sense in this situation?

 

When I first saw the video, I thought "why didn't the officer just pull out a taser?". But that would probably made the aftermath of all of this even worse.

I totally understand your position. And we speculate without any history of behavior of the student. And as I've stated, I think that it could have been handled differently, but at some point she needed extracted from that room and that desk. As for how the other students perceived the incident, I bet is was a blend of both, and some of that may have been their knowledge of her behavioral history as well.

 

That's true. And I should add I have no problem with physically removing her from the room if the teacher decided that's what needed to happen. For me, I think the problem comes from this officer's need to preserve the aura of his authority and that means he couldn't pussyfoot around (I'm not blaming him for that). That works in some circumstances, but I don't think it works in a school setting and I don't think we should be wasting time and money training officers on how to deal with student problems when I think principals and teachers are already trained to do it. Part of that is we've created a perverse environment where they are afraid to do it for fear of catching heat and thus they rely on the police.

That's true. And I should add I have no problem with physically removing her from the room if the teacher decided that's what needed to happen. For me, I think the problem comes from this officer's need to preserve the aura of his authority and that means he couldn't pussyfoot around (I'm not blaming him for that). That works in some circumstances, but I don't think it works in a school setting and I don't think we should be wasting time and money training officers on how to deal with student problems when I think principals and teachers are already trained to do it. Part of that is we've created a perverse environment where they are afraid to do it for fear of catching heat and thus they rely on the police.

 

The problem is teachers and principals are afraid to get involved because of how society now judges them for any physical contact at all. So they now use the SRO to do the work teachers are suppose to be doing.

That's the issue, right? Just because you do the right thing doesn't mean you can do it without repercussions. What if he punched her in the face? He was doing the right thing by getting her to leave but....there's a limit. What's the limit?

 

Again, I do agree he crossed the line.

 

I just don't think we should villianize(is that a word) him. Educate him.

I would be be curious to hear from LEO as to how they are trained? Are they trained in this approach? I would guess most are not.

 

Outrage grows after South Carolina officer tosses student - CNN.com

 

Analyst: The officer was within his rights

CNN law enforcement analyst Harry Houck, though, cautioned against jumping to conclusions about Fields, even if the video "looks really bad."

 

If an officer decides to make an arrest, Houck said, he or she "can use whatever force is necessary."

 

"So if you don't comply with my wishes ... then I can do whatever it takes to get you out of that seat and put handcuffs on you," said Houck, a former New York police detective.

Outrage grows after South Carolina officer tosses student - CNN.com

 

Analyst: The officer was within his rights

CNN law enforcement analyst Harry Houck, though, cautioned against jumping to conclusions about Fields, even if the video "looks really bad."

 

If an officer decides to make an arrest, Houck said, he or she "can use whatever force is necessary."

 

"So if you don't comply with my wishes ... then I can do whatever it takes to get you out of that seat and put handcuffs on you," said Houck, a former New York police detective.

 

the article then states:

That said, Houck questioned why the officer was even called in to deal with the student in the first place.

 

"Cops are at a school in the event a crime is being committed," he said.

 

"Too often, these teachers in these schools are calling on the cops because they have a disruptive student in the classroom. This is not a cop's job."

 

He was seconded by Sunny Hostin, a former federal prosecutor and current CNN legal analyst. Hostin doesn't think anything could have justified the deputy's actions in the first place, but generally challenged the idea of law enforcement being involved in incidents like this one.

 

"We in our schools, at least in the United States, are too quick to call in the police to deal with behavioral situations," Hostin said.

The Use-of-Force Continuum | National Institute of Justice

Even for those who believe, (smh) that the force was justified, the steps the officer took to get there were wrong. He said something like "Either you are going to move or I am going to move you." According to the force continuum, he should have been less confrontational. Even for those of you who think what he did was fine, you simply can't deny that he could have tried, even briefly, to engage her in a non-confrontational way. "Sally, I have been called here because you are not following directions. I understand you might be upset about something, why don't you come out in the hall and talk to me about it. I don't want to have to force you to leave, so why don't we just go outside and talk?"

Would that have worked? Who knows? But something like that is called for in the use of force continuum which is a thing created by law enforcement, not raging liberals.

 

Feds to investigate violent incident of officer slamming, draggi - Cincinnati News, FOX19-WXIX TV

 

You also don't have the beginning of the incident. He may have done that (though not as Ghandi like).

 

"The person who posted the Instagram video says the student was initially asked to leave the class for telling the teacher that she would not put away her phone. The poster says the teacher disciplined the student with a write-up for being disrespectful and disobedient. After being asked to leave again, and her refusing, an administrator came to remove her, she refused, and that is when the SRO was called in.

 

The poster of this video claims when Fields got to the classroom, he asked her to get up from her desk 4 or 5 times and again, she tells him no. After moving objects from around the student, and asking again to leave the classroom, and her refusing, that is where you see the officer getting physical."

and a bit later in that same article

And in this case, Lavarello from the School Safety Advocacy Council doesn't think this school resource officer should have ever been involved in what "should have been left in the school discipline area." Once the officer was involved, he could have deployed "a lot of strategies" like having the other students leave the room first.

 

 

oh hey, my crazy liberal idea was proposed by the spokesperson for the School Safety Advocacy Council. Probably a bunch of liberals too lol.

the article then states:

That said, Houck questioned why the officer was even called in to deal with the student in the first place.

 

"Cops are at a school in the event a crime is being committed," he said.

 

"Too often, these teachers in these schools are calling on the cops because they have a disruptive student in the classroom. This is not a cop's job."

 

He was seconded by Sunny Hostin, a former federal prosecutor and current CNN legal analyst. Hostin doesn't think anything could have justified the deputy's actions in the first place, but generally challenged the idea of law enforcement being involved in incidents like this one.

 

"We in our schools, at least in the United States, are too quick to call in the police to deal with behavioral situations," Hostin said.

 

That's what I said earlier, what are the responsibility of the SRO's. Is it to stop crimes, community relations, or become a school adminstrator.

That's true. And I should add I have no problem with physically removing her from the room if the teacher decided that's what needed to happen. For me, I think the problem comes from this officer's need to preserve the aura of his authority and that means he couldn't pussyfoot around (I'm not blaming him for that). That works in some circumstances, but I don't think it works in a school setting and I don't think we should be wasting time and money training officers on how to deal with student problems when I think principals and teachers are already trained to do it. Part of that is we've created a perverse environment where they are afraid to do it for fear of catching heat and thus they rely on the police.

 

I disagree, he has to maintain that aura of his authority. If he doesn't, then the next kid will just laugh at him when he gives them direction or an order. Now, he's sent a message, I'm doing my job and will do what I need to when I need to do it to keep this school safe.

 

This generation is SOFT and these lessons are needed.

I disagree, he has to maintain that aura of his authority. If he doesn't, then the next kid will just laugh at him when he gives them direction or an order. Now, he's sent a message, I'm doing my job and will do what I need to when I need to do it to keep this school safe.

 

This generation is SOFT and these lessons are needed.

 

I think you've misread what I said.