I have never had a moral issue with the death penalty and believe most people who have been put to death in this country "earned" that penalty. With that said, there have been mistakes. I now have the opinion that if the death penalty was done away with...I could live with that. Not for moral reasons...but rather for financial reasons and for the small percentage that may have been "wrongly convicted". For those that deserve it, to me there's nothing worse than an agonizing life spent in prison...I think that's worse than death. With that said...their term needs to be "agonizing" while they are there...so much so where maybe they are wishing death would come to them.

I'm against the death penalty in every possible way..morally, ethically, politically...any other -ly you've got.

Feel the same way about abortion? Government says it's okay, so is that God-ordained authority too?

 

I am a staunch opponent of abortion and I wish all governments held the same belief, but they don't.

 

But as I said, all government is flawed and imperfect, but government is still an authority put in position by God Himself. David was God's choice to be the king over Israel, yet he had an affair, tried to cover it up, and successfully arranged for the woman's husband to be killed. That's one of a gazillion examples of imperfect government, but it is still God-ordained.

For the record, I am somewhat torn on the issue of Capital Punishment. My worldview is Biblically-shaped & the above passage is one reference that I believe supports the practice. So I have long been a proponent of it, but more & more I find myself backing away a bit from those beliefs--similar to what Guru said in post #29. I do feel there are open & shut cases where it should be administered. But we cannot tolerate innocent people being put to death, nor do I believe we can tolerate instances such as this.

 

But I also acknowledge there is a part of me (a sinful part, IMO) that says, "He's getting what he deserves."

 

Agree with everything you've said here.

 

But, as I've stated before on other threads, if we "settle" on a life sentence as being the ultimate punishment...it needs to be in Alaska doing hard labor...not in some facility where they get any comforts of home (library/gym/cable/etc.) Break rock in the summer, shovel snow in the winter. Try to escape? Get eaten by bears.

The US government did make it legal, but they shouldn't have.

 

But the government David oversaw did have Capital Punishment that was God-ordained.

But the government David oversaw did have Capital Punishment that was God-ordained.

 

...but that still doesn't necessarily make it right.

Agree with everything you've said here.

 

But, as I've stated before on other threads, if we "settle" on a life sentence as being the ultimate punishment...it needs to be in Alaska doing hard labor...not in some facility where they get any comforts of home (library/gym/cable/etc.) Break rock in the summer, shovel snow in the winter. Try to escape? Get eaten by bears.

 

I could live with this alternative.

On the same note, not too many murderers who spent life in prison murdered again either.

 

Murdering other prisoners is still murder.

I think the modern American state is a far cry from the ancient and noble concept of the Christian prince. Truth be told, I think Erasmus and Augustine must be a little disappointed to have seen just how much their notion of good governance lost out to Machiavelli and Marx.

 

I say that to say this: I have a REALLY tough time with looking at the government and people of the State of Arizona as the arm of the Lord, which is what Romans 13 has seemed to imply when applied here. Is that a lack of faith on my part? I don't know, but until I do, I'm going to continue to err on the side of answering injustice with justice, and hope that my conviction that even the most craven or evil among us may still have a part to play in God's plan.

 

We're in agreement on a lot of what you've said here, particularly that first paragraph.

 

I don't believe the fumbled execution in Arizona is something God desired at all. But I do believe that Capital Punishment in and of itself has Biblical support from the Romans 13 passage. I'm not saying the New Testament commands Capital Punishment, but I do believe Romans 13 can support it.

...but that still doesn't necessarily make it right.

 

God commanded Capital Punishment in the Old Testament.

God commanded Capital Punishment in the Old Testament.

 

And then there's that whole New Testament and the Son of God and His beatitudes and all....

I see nothing in Romans 13 that even begins to relate to capital punishment. Just me?

I see nothing in Romans 13 that even begins to relate to capital punishment. Just me?

 

"...for he (government) does not bear the sword for nothing."

And then there's that whole New Testament and the Son of God and His beatitudes and all....

 

Your sarcasm aside, what are you implying?

Yeah, not really. Part of the reason the guillotine fell out of favor is because it was taking three and four drops of the blade to finish the job. High-grade gory.

 

I had never read that. Always thought it went out of style in France because of it's ties to the "Reign of Terror" and the gore factor was hard to control. I can't imagine a killing machine that when sharpened properly works any better for execution.