:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

 

#teamRandy

 

:lol2::lol2::lol2:

:lol2::lol2::lol2:

 

 

You know I got you. Even if you are wrong I still got you. Not sure who is right or wrong on this one but I'm with you. I wish I could help you out but you got this. I'm just your support team on this one. :thumb:

 

#dowork

You know I got you. Even if you are wrong I still got you. Not sure who is right or wrong on this one but I'm with you. I wish I could help you out but you got this. I'm just your support team on this one. :thumb:

 

#dowork

 

:lol2::thumb::lol2::thumb:

 

#teamRandy really caught me off guard. Two snot rockets, to be precise.

Thanks for the answer. :thumb:

 

And I promise I'm not trying to be difficult, but as I see it, your reply (at least the very first part) would seem to validate what I have been trying to say--that one can find theological support for Capital Punishment. If we can find a theological foundation for a just war, where lives will surely be taken, is there not also such support for it on an individual basis?

 

When an enemy army invades a country/territory & takes innocent lives, how is that different from an individual invading a home and doing the same?

 

If you believe in "Just War" theology then there is an absolute basis for Capital Punishment. You outline that well.

 

I, however, didn't say that I believed in "Just War" theology. :thumb:

 

I struggle with the notion that God approves of war or violence. I tend to believe that God allows that it can and will be course we take but I struggle to believe that God ever "sanctions" the death of God's Creation. In light of the way I read the New Testament and in particular Jesus' teachings, I find it hard to find myself ever believing that "God is on our side." I sometimes feel as if God hold's God's nose from the stench we make of Creation.

 

War and Capital Punishment may be that stench's strongest odor.

 

To me, there is a world of difference between "allows" and "commands." God did not create the world with sin. Humanity chose Sin. And that sin keeps creation from being what God intended. But God is looking to Redeem Creation still.

 

It's been great discussing this with all of you guys.

If you believe in "Just War" theology then there is an absolute basis for Capital Punishment. You outline that well.

 

I, however, didn't say that I believed in "Just War" theology. :thumb:

 

I struggle with the notion that God approves of war or violence. I tend to believe that God allows that it can and will be course we take but I struggle to believe that God ever "sanctions" the death of God's Creation. In light of the way I read the New Testament and in particular Jesus' teachings, I find it hard to find myself ever believing that "God is on our side." I sometimes feel as if God hold's God's nose from the stench we make of Creation.

 

War and Capital Punishment may be that stench's strongest odor.

 

To me, there is a world of difference between "allows" and "commands." God did not create the world with sin. Humanity chose Sin. And that sin keeps creation from being what God intended. But God is looking to Redeem Creation still.

 

It's been great discussing this with all of you guys.

 

Agree on the great discussion. :thumb:

 

I feel like the American government was right, and within God's will, to engage in war after Japan attacked Pearl Harbor and took over 2,000 lives in the process. Was God pleased that we went to war? Not at all. But I don't believe we were disobedient. I believe He put government in place, in part, to defend the innocent & administer justice. The U.S. entering World War II, I believe, was government acting with the authority of God--and acting in such a way that life would be taken.

 

I apply that same theological reasoning when an individual takes another individual's life. Government is not commanded to take the life of the perpetrator, but I don't see it being outside of God's will if it does.

I was joking.....but....

 

You don't think in this day and age we could make one that would work swiftly in one drop?

 

May be true Jim...however, I'd say with the mechanical technology, steel composites and blade sharpening abilities available to us today compared to 200 years ago probably render that argument moot.

 

Still doesn't remove the gore aspect of it.

Agree on the great discussion. :thumb:

 

I feel like the American government was right, and within God's will, to engage in war after Japan attacked Pearl Harbor and took over 2,000 lives in the process. Was God pleased that we went to war? Not at all. But I don't believe we were disobedient. I believe He put government in place, in part, to defend the innocent & administer justice. The U.S. entering World War II, I believe, was government acting with the authority of God--and acting in such a way that life would be taken.

 

I apply that same theological reasoning when an individual takes another individual's life. Government is not commanded to take the life of the perpetrator, but I don't see it being outside of God's will if it does.

I find it a horrific thought that it was "God's will" to kill innocent children with the use of the atomic bombs. That and anytime non-combatants are killed. Horrific.

I find it a horrific thought that it was "God's will" to kill innocent children with the use of the atomic bombs. That and anytime non-combatants are killed. Horrific.

If you believe the back of the book and the earth is consumed in fire, it will be indeed horrific, and all in God's will.

Matthew 6:14-15

For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses

 

John 8:3-11

The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in adultery, and placing her in the midst they said to him, “Teacher, this woman has been caught in the act of adultery. Now in the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. So what do you say?” This they said to test him, that they might have some charge to bring against him. Jesus bent down and wrote with his finger on the ground. And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.”

 

Romans 12:19

Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.”

 

Matthew 26:52

Then Jesus said to him, “Put your sword back into its place. For all who take the sword will perish by the sword.

 

Ezekiel 33:11

Say to them, As I live, declares the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live; turn back, turn back from your evil ways, for why will you die, O house of Israel?

 

Matthew 5:43-48

“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same?

 

Romans 13:9

For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

 

Ezekiel 33:14-19

Again, though I say to the wicked, ‘You shall surely die,’ yet if he turns from his sin and does what is just and right, if the wicked restores the pledge, gives back what he has taken by robbery, and walks in the statutes of life, not doing injustice, he shall surely live; he shall not die. None of the sins that he has committed shall be remembered against him. He has done what is just and right; he shall surely live. “Yet your people say, ‘The way of the Lord is not just,’ when it is their own way that is not just. When the righteous turns from his righteousness and does injustice, he shall die for it.

 

Matthew 5:38-39

“You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.

 

Acts 9:11-16

And the Lord said to him, “Rise and go to the street called Straight, and at the house of Judas look for a man of Tarsus named Saul, for behold, he is praying, and he has seen in a vision a man named Ananias come in and lay his hands on him so that he might regain his sight.” But Ananias answered, “Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much evil he has done to your saints at Jerusalem. And here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on your name.” But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen instrument of mine to carry my name before the Gentiles and kings and the children of Israel.

 

John 19:11

Jesus answered him, “You would have no authority over me at all unless it had been given you from above. Therefore he who delivered me over to you has the greater sin.”

 

Rockmom rocking the Scripture references!

I know I'm late to this party, but here goes.

 

Man kills girlfriend and her father in front of a witness that knew him, so there is zero doubt he committed the crime. He was chased by police and after laying his gun down picked it back up and pointed it at the police. He was then shot multiple times and required extensive surgery to save his life. One well placed shot or slower EMS response 25 years ago and the state would have saved millions on his prosecution, appeals and incarceration.

 

Some witnesses said that he was snoring through out the two hours, so I have no idea how much pain he was or wasn't in.

 

There are a lot of things that concern me in day to day life. How a murderer dies, ain't one of them.

I find it a horrific thought that it was "God's will" to kill innocent children with the use of the atomic bombs. That and anytime non-combatants are killed. Horrific.

 

Which is why I used the phrase "The U.S. entering World War II..."

Which is why I used the phrase "The U.S. entering World War II..."

 

How does one separate entering the war with fighting the war?

Agree on the great discussion. :thumb:

 

I feel like the American government was right, and within God's will, to engage in war after Japan attacked Pearl Harbor and took over 2,000 lives in the process. Was God pleased that we went to war? Not at all. But I don't believe we were disobedient. I believe He put government in place, in part, to defend the innocent & administer justice. The U.S. entering World War II, I believe, was government acting with the authority of God--and acting in such a way that life would be taken.

 

I apply that same theological reasoning when an individual takes another individual's life. Government is not commanded to take the life of the perpetrator, but I don't see it being outside of God's will if it does.

 

That is perhaps the easiest war for Just War theology. But the execution of the war had its moments even on our side.

How does one separate entering the war with fighting the war?

 

I believe it's certainly possible to enter a war with the right motives, but to end up executing it in a wrong way.

People thought King Jesus would be royalty when he came to Earth. But he came as a carpenter.

My guess is that we will be just as far off with the rapture.