So do you not see any Obama blunders and the lack of respect for the threat Russia holds leading to any of the problems of the past few days?

Eisenhower and John Foster Dulles were criticized similarly in 1956 when Russian tanks put down the Hungarian Revolution. U.S. non-involvement in Eastern Europe is hardly a recent phenomenon.

Seems like there was something a little more pressing domestically that took up most of the US's attention in 2008. With everything going on in 2008 the Russians could have landed in Savannah Georgia and been half way to Atlanta Georgia before anyone would have noticed in the US.

 

***Side note***I remember my Facebook news feed blowing up with idiots who DID think that Russia had invaded Georgia, USA. :lol: Seriously, sometimes I think we'd deserve it because we are so ignorant!

So, why bring President Obama into it at all?

He was brought into it by his statements he made warning Russia.

It's not a DNC defense shield. There is just no logic in these assertions. I also feel Putin is a different animal. I don't think diplomacy will have one iota of affect on him. He's (IMO) a more refined Sadaam Hussein.

The big difference is Sudaam actually feared the US because of the president. Putin doesn't.

Who suggested any of this. I feel some of you are getting to defensive. I believe I already stated I do not want to go to war over this. The point has been simple and ignored by a few. Obama has lost credibilty on the world stage and that has given strength to people like Putin. His words do not hold any strength. He ignored the threat Russia is and even laughed at Romney in the debates for even suggesting Russia may be a threat and some on here even stated how great of a line it was in the debate.

 

It's simple

 

1. Obama lost credibilty by drawing red lines and then not acting on them

2. He lost credibility by being soft with Russia on many issues over the last 6 years.

3. These two main points have embolden Putin to make such dangerous moves.

 

It's that simple. If you ask me what my answer is I don't have one. I wish we had a time machine so we could go back and erase 6 years of Foreign policy blunders. But we don't so now as I stated in a earlier post I hope not only does Obama have the right people around him, but I hope he listens to the right people around him and not the wrong ones as it seems he has in the past.

 

I find the criticisms offered in this thread to be dissonant and unrealistic (I view this the result of the demands of partisanship to neatly compartmentalize messy issues into simple and stark choices, which is especially exacerbated in foreign affairs).

 

On the issue of “credibility”: A country’s credibility is tied to its ability and willingness to use military force. As many of the critics in here have already conceded, there’s very little willingness to engage militarily - though, confusingly, these same critics complain that Putin wasn’t deterred from invading because he didn’t fear American reprisal.

 

On the issue of Putin being emboldened by Obama: We have a relatively easy comparison case with Russia invading another country that was being overtly courted by the US into its strategic alliance. Bush had a belligerent and pre-emptive foreign policy, and even still Putin was not dissuaded. And the reason, in both cases, is the same as above: The US has nothing to gain from military intervention in these countries and consequently almost no willingness to enter into such a pernicious and, what would be unprecedented, conflict. Putin is aware of this, which, I imagine, is why his adventures have been limited to former Soviet satellites rather than, say, a NATO member.

I find the criticisms offered in this thread to be dissonant and unrealistic (I view this the result of the demands of partisanship to neatly compartmentalize messy issues into simple and stark choices, which is especially exacerbated in foreign affairs).

 

On the issue of “credibility”: A country’s credibility is tied to its ability and willingness to use military force. As many of the critics in here have already conceded, there’s very little willingness to engage militarily - though, confusingly, these same critics complain that Putin wasn’t deterred from invading because he didn’t fear American reprisal.

 

On the issue of Putin being emboldened by Obama: We have a relatively easy comparison case with Russia invading another country that was being overtly courted by the US into its strategic alliance. Bush had a belligerent and pre-emptive foreign policy, and even still Putin was not dissuaded. And the reason, in both cases, is the same as above: The US has nothing to gain from military intervention in these countries and consequently almost no willingness to enter into such a pernicious and, what would be unprecedented, conflict. Putin is aware of this, which, I imagine, is why his adventures have been limited to former Soviet satellites rather than, say, a NATO member.

 

So again are you saying Obamas past blunders and mishandling of relationship with Russia's with issues such as START has no influence on Putin's behavior . If you say no then we will agree to disagree. To much evidence to support otherwise. Sorry if I'm openly critical of a president and a party who mocked anyone over the last 6 hears who said Russia was a growing threat and then today act surprised on what's going . I just can't ignore 6 years of clueless behavior.

I think we are getting a little off topic in this thread so I think the bottom line is..... now that Russia has taken position in parts of Ukraine, how can we get them out? Obviously, a Russian takeover is something no one wants. We may not like it but its going to take a lot more pressure from Russia's EU neighbors (Eastern and Western portions alike) to get Putin and his soldier's out of there. I'm no expert on these manners but I feel like rather than figuring out why things have lead to this situation is far less fruitful than figuring out what to do about it now that its happened.

I think we are getting a little off topic in this thread so I think the bottom line is..... now that Russia has taken position in parts of Ukraine' date=' how can we get them out? Obviously, a Russian takeover is something no one wants. We may not like it but its going to take a lot more pressure from Russia's EU neighbors (Eastern and Western portions alike) to get Putin and his soldier's out of there. I'm no expert on these manners but I feel like rather than figuring out why things have lead to this situation is far less fruitful than figuring out what to do about it now that its happened.[/quote']

 

I honestly don't think America could have prevented it, nor can we get him out. Those who have interests that impact Russia's economy will have to be the one's that do something. The problem there is whether their citizenships will be behind sanctions that not only negatively impact Russia, but themselves as well. The EU has major economic issues. I'm not sure they will vote to risk any shaky ground they've gained by funding military action, nor paying more for resources acquired via Russia.

Chuck Hagel on Face the Nation right now.

 

"The US has no military obligations; the US has no treaty obligations with Ukraine and Putin knows that."

 

Nor should we.

 

Get the G8 together and kick them out. Russia's recent growth is based greatly on commodity prices which are unstable. Putin is failing and he's trying to hold on. As Habib said above, that's a primary cause here.

 

Hagel maybe wrong.

 

Budapest treaty signed in 1994 may still be binding.

 

Treaty would mean 'British war with Russia' if Putin's troops intervene in Ukraine | Mail Online

 

"A treaty signed in 1994 by the US and Britain could pull both countries into a war to protect Ukraine if President Putin's troops cross into the country.

Bill Clinton, John Major, Boris Yeltsin and Leonid Kuchma – the then-rulers of the USA, UK, Russia and Ukraine - agreed to the The Budapest Memorandum as part of the denuclearization of former Soviet republics after the dissolution of the Soviet Union.

 

 

Technically it means that if Russia has invaded Ukraine then it would be difficult for the US and Britain to avoid going to war.

 

..."

 

 

I honestly don't think America could have prevented it, nor can we get him out. Those who have interests that impact Russia's economy will have to be the one's that do something. The problem there is whether their citizenships will be behind sanctions that not only negatively impact Russia, but themselves as well. The EU has major economic issues. I'm not sure they will vote to risk any shaky ground they've gained by funding military action, nor paying more for resources acquired via Russia.

 

I don't think we could have prevented this either. Maybe we could have done a few things to make it harder for them to have made the decision to move in but I really think that in the end, very little thought was given to things like how the US would react.

 

Ultimately, I also think we can't get them out nor should we participate in this no more than sending some diplomats over to the region to help see if a compromise can be made. Its not our problem, so we shouldn't involved no further than that. I know John Kerry was reported to be heading over to Ukraine due to the events and I'm okay with that as to help speed up the talks if any can held that are of worth.

 

Hopefully the rest of the EU starts to take some action and limit the damage of the situation as much as possible

And, frankly, the EU is who needs to step in. They are directly affected by Russia's actions in Crimea.

 

I agree with you there. Unfortunately, Europe has continued to neuture their armed forces resulting in forces about as intimidating as a boy scout pack.

Obama, Obama, Obama ... :wacky:

:popcorn:

We may have not stopped the invasion of Georgia or Ukraine, just as we did not stop numerous aggressions by the now defunct Soviet Union. The reason that the USSR is no more is that we spent decades showing strength, not weakness. As the leader of the Free World we must regain that resolve to show strength, least Ukrainian type situations will keep popping up all over the world, not just involving Russia, but China, Iran and any other wannabe empires.

FNC Shows Flashback to Obama Ridiculing Romney: ?1980s Are Calling to Ask for Their Foreign Policy Back? | NewsBusters