Just like it was ok for Germany to take Austria, Sudetenland, and Czech? Afterall, it was their neck of the woods. :idunno:

 

I don't think that comparison is very fair (because anytime you involve Nazi Germany it just completely alters the course of the discussion). Unilaterally seizing Crimea is not good, but Putin isn't a fascist... or a communist for that matter. He wants influence. Losing Poland to the EU was a dear blow to him and he won't lose out on Ukraine too. That's ultimately what this is all about.

I don't think that comparison is very fair (because anytime you involve Nazi Germany it just completely alters the course of the discussion). Unilaterally seizing Crimea is not good, but Putin isn't a fascist... or a communist for that matter. He wants influence. Losing Poland to the EU was a dear blow to him and he won't lose out on Ukraine too. That's ultimately what this is all about.

He was a communist until the party was dissolved in the early 90's, I'm guessing if it hadn't been dissolved he'd still be in the party and BTW it's most powerful member.

He was a communist until the party was dissolved in the early 90's, I'm guessing if it hadn't been dissolved he'd still be in the party and BTW it's most powerful member.

 

He's not a true believer is what I mean. Most of the big shots weren't at the end. He's not looking to recreate the Soviet Union. He's looking to expand Russia's sphere of influence and consolidate wealth and power in the hands of he and his friends, not reignite the revolution of the proletariat.

I don't think that comparison is very fair (because anytime you involve Nazi Germany it just completely alters the course of the discussion). Unilaterally seizing Crimea is not good, but Putin isn't a fascist... or a communist for that matter. He wants influence. Losing Poland to the EU was a dear blow to him and he won't lose out on Ukraine too. That's ultimately what this is all about.

 

I don't disagree. I just wanted to point out the fallacy IMO of the argument of "it's their neck of the woods."

Just like it was ok for Germany to take Austria, Sudetenland, and Czech? Afterall, it was their neck of the woods. :idunno:

 

Maybe same reason we took Hawaii.

 

This has nothing to do with Nazi Germany.

 

If you want to bring history into it.

In 1914 some terrorist known as the Black Hand(from the region now as Ukraine) killed the Arch Duke of Austria, which in turn eventually led to WWI.

Maybe Russia knows something we dont and is trying to prevent future problems.

Maybe same reason we took Hawaii.

 

This has nothing to do with Nazi Germany.

 

If you want to bring history into it.

In 1914 some terrorist known as the Black Hand(from the region now as Ukraine) killed the Arch Duke of Austria, which in turn eventually led to WWI.

Maybe Russia knows something we dont and is trying to prevent future problems.

 

Maybe they do... or maybe Putin's a thug and a kleptocrat.

 

Do you hate the American president so much that you're willing to throw him under the bus and give the benefit of the doubt to an ex-KGB man? Is that what's been happening here?

Maybe they do... or maybe Putin's a thug and a kleptocrat.

 

Do you hate the American president so much that you're willing to throw him under the bus and give the benefit of the doubt to an ex-KGB man? Is that what's been happening here?

 

Even though I do hate Obama as a President(not person)

Yes Putin has more of a clue than Obama.

 

Putin is ex KGB, Obama is ex community organizer. So yeah, Putin has more leadership skills and a clue to what is actually going on.

 

Obama was told a video caused Benghazi, hahaha. Like he has a clue.

Maybe same reason we took Hawaii.

 

This has nothing to do with Nazi Germany.

 

If you want to bring history into it.

In 1914 some terrorist known as the Black Hand(from the region now as Ukraine) killed the Arch Duke of Austria, which in turn eventually led to WWI.

Maybe Russia knows something we dont and is trying to prevent future problems.

 

The group was "the black hand." I believe he was Serbian, not Ukranian. Russia backed the Serbians.

Even though I do hate Obama as a President(not person)

Yes Putin has more of a clue than Obama.

 

That's not what I asked.

Speaking defiantly at an hour-long, unscripted news conference in Moscow at which he described events in Ukraine as an "unconstitutional coup," Mr Putin denied that Russian troops had occupied Crimea and laid blame for the crisis on the United States, which he said had interfered in Ukraine "from across the pond in America as if they were sitting in a laboratory and running experiments on rats, without any understanding of the consequences."

 

Read more: As Ukraine tension flares, Russia test-fires ballistic missile

 

Interesting comments by Putin. Also, an interesting time to test fire a ballistic missile. Even if it were scheduled, wouldn't prudence say to postpone it a while?

 

So Putin thinks Obama and the US are too involved in the Ukraine and nearly everyone in this thread thinks Obama has not done enough. I guess he has done enough to bother Putin.

The group was "the black hand." I believe he was Serbian, not Ukranian. Russia backed the Serbians.

 

Yes the black hand and the person who killed the arch duke was a Serb nationalist named gavrilo princip.

 

Killed him in Bosnia.

 

Yes Russia did back the Serbs then and Austria Hugary declared war which resulted in Germany declaring war on Russia and then we have WW1.

 

After the war both Serbia and Bosnia become part of Yugoslavia

 

So maybe Russia is trying to prevent a breakup, who knows.

One wrong move and this thing will get very ugly very fast. Saw video today where some Ukrainian solders were walking along and stopped, by gun point by Russian solders. One shot will be all it takes .

Putins back is against the wall so he pushed back a wee bit considering the last couple weeks events. Clearly the loss of his puppet Ukraine leader upset the apple cart. Look to this "dust up" settling down. This venture is his attempt to save face. He'll lose more than he gains adopting an old hard line approach and he knows that. I'm just hoping the old school hard liners aren't pumping him full of vodka after the media reported icbm test today.

 

In other news what are "we the people going to do" to convince banks to lend to small business so we can recapture our country and put America back to work! If you're counting on the current cabinet to do that for us, I would venture to say, get excited about "socialism." And people wonder why they drink so much in the "United Kingdom."

Putins back is against the wall so he pushed back a wee bit considering the last couple weeks events. Clearly the loss of his puppet Ukraine leader upset the apple cart. Look to this "dust up" settling down. This venture is his attempt to save face. He'll lose more than he gains adopting an old hard line approach and he knows that. I'm just hoping the old school hard liners aren't pumping him full of vodka after the media reported icbm test today.

 

In other news what are "we the people going to do" to convince banks to lend to small business so we can recapture our country and put America back to work! If you're counting on the current cabinet to do that for us, I would venture to say, get excited about "socialism." And people wonder why they drink so much in the "United Kingdom."

 

I'm confused on what he will lose. As GetSlow and other have said the EU isn't going to do anything and they are really the only body that can put meaningful sanctions on Russia.

I'm confused on what he will lose. As GetSlow and other have said the EU isn't going to do anything and they are really the only body that can put meaningful sanctions on Russia.

 

It's a gamble. Regardless of EU or US sanctions and repercussions, there's still a strong likelihood that even if he gains Crimea, he'll lose the rest of the Ukraine to Europe in the process. He's counting on strong-arm tactics and playing up fears of Western dominance over the East in order to maintain control (the Russian-speaking East is far more populous than the Ukranian-speaking West and is likely to support Russian-favoring candidates in any free election). He won't risk a full-scale invasion of Ukraine; that's not what he wants or needs.