You're thinking about the US role in this on FAR too great a scale. This is Russia trying to maintain its sphere of influence in a country sharply divided between those that want greater integration with Europe and those who want closer ties to Russia. There are elements of nationalism, a deeply confused history and questions of self-determination at stake. What in the name of dithering blazes does that have to do with Obama?

 

This is the EU and Russia going toe-to-toe over regional influence in former Soviet republics as a country heads toward a civil war largely along ethnic lines, but I'll humor it. What should Obama have done in the last two years to stop this from happening?

 

I understand all that. But if anyone believes Putin wanted diplomacy over show of force is being naive. Many people in this country have been warning the Obama adminstration to focus more on Russia and that the kid gloves approach was no way to garner respect from an evil man like Putin. Blunder after blunder has allowed these Russian leaders to believe we have a president who really doesn't know how to handle conflict on a global scale.

 

You ask what could he have done in the last two years? How about the last 6 years? He scraped a defense system with our allies and garnered a bill with Russia that made us look weak. He was out drawing red lines in other conflicts and didn't back up lines that were drawn. So when Obama gets on TV and sends a threat toward Russia on their actions. Why would they respect them when they have got everything they wanted out of him and also know he doesn't back up statements when it comes to global conflict.

Chuck Hagel on Face the Nation right now.

 

"The US has no military obligations; the US has no treaty obligations with Ukraine and Putin knows that."

 

Nor should we.

 

Get the G8 together and kick them out. Russia's recent growth is based greatly on commodity prices which are unstable. Putin is failing and he's trying to hold on. As Habib said above, that's a primary cause here.

 

I agree they need to be kicked out of the G8 yesterday.

I fail to see how President Obama has anything at all to do with this situation. May I assume that GWB was considered weak by the Taliban? By the Shiites? The Sunnis?

 

Apples to Oranges. Terrorists and Taliban had been plotting against the West well before GW. Russia or the fromer Soviet Union was an evil empire that had been crushed and dismantled. In a matter of 6 years because of our hand holding diplomacy and constant blunders we have now given our number 1 geopolitcal enemy the courage to ignore our requests.

As I said in my first post in here, he has nothing to do with this Ukraine thing at all. What I did say however is his Foreign Policy blunders have shown him to be very weak in that area and is why his threat to Russia is falling on deaf ears and is probably being laughed at by Putin.

 

So, why bring President Obama into it at all?

 

Apples to Oranges. Terrorists and Taliban had been plotting against the West well before GW. Russia or the fromer Soviet Union was an evil empire that had been crushed and dismantled. In a matter of 6 years because of our hand holding diplomacy and constant blunders we have now given our number 1 geopolitcal enemy the courage to ignore our requests.

 

Rationalization is a wonderful thing...isn't it?

Apples to Oranges. Terrorists and Taliban had been plotting against the West well before GW. Russia or the fromer Soviet Union was an evil empire that had been crushed and dismantled. In a matter of 6 years because of our hand holding diplomacy and constant blunders we have now given our number 1 geopolitcal enemy the courage to ignore our requests.

 

Russia invaded Georgia in 2008 over South Ossetia. The US was courting Georgia to become a NATO member, expressed outrage and threatened consequences over the invasion, and joined the European Union in leading peace talks. Coincidentally, it was during the 2008 summer Olympics when Bush met with Putin over the conflict. Russia was undeterred and by all accounts got everything it wanted in the settlement.

 

The simple point is that the United States is not going to send its military into countries that have no strategic value or alliance just to fight the Russians for the sake of chest-thumping bravado. This is the domain of Hollywood or other fantasies. That is the only "credibility" that matters.

I fail to see how President Obama has anything at all to do with this situation. May I assume that GWB was considered weak by the Taliban? By the Shiites? The Sunnis?

 

Being that 9-11 happened so early in GWB's administration, how could it be assumed they knew what to expect from GWB? What they had been conditioned on from the 1990's (little to no US response from the bombing of the USS Cole, the first World Trade Center bombing or the embassy in Nigeria) was that you could punch the US and expect numerous warnings and threats but nothing substantial would come of it because US diplomacy was very weak. It appears Putin feels that has come back to US diplomacy and it appears much of the world agrees with him.

Here's where I'll agree that American leadership is necessary: we have failed to give Putin anything to be concerned about because none of the sanctions that should have come about in 2008 after the Georgian conflict ever materialized. But part of the problem is that Russia doesn't trade so much with us and our European allies have long decided that helping Russian oligarchs and gangsters amass and then hide their wealth is what's important to them. If our allies cut Putin and Russia off from access to Swiss and British banks and general European trade, then he might care.

 

Our trouble with getting Western Europe to get behind sanctions for bad guys goes back a lot longer than Obama.

The Ukraine is a central point for natural gas lines that feed Europe, I think the Europeans aren't too excited about freezing next winter.

 

UN Sec Gen on TV a little while ago denouncing the Russian move.

 

Russia is using the rationale that Russian Speaking Citizens in the Crimea are in need of protection and that's why they have moved in.

If anyone has read the last Tom Clancy novel Command Authority you would think that he had a crystal ball. The book was his last novel and was released in December and in many ways it is almost this exact scenario that is taking place.

 

In it Russia gave Russian speaking citizens in the Crimea, Russian passports and then invaded Crimea under the guise of protecting them. There was much upheaval in Kiev which was perpetrated by under cover Russian security forces (Think Russian CIA). Russia then decides they have to invade the Ukrainian, again under the guise of regional security.

 

Too bad Jack Ryan isn't President!

The Ukraine is a central point for natural gas lines that feed Europe, I think the Europeans aren't too excited about freezing next winter.

Bingo.

 

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user3303/imageroot/2014/02/20140220_ukr7.png

The Ukraine is a central point for natural gas lines that feed Europe, I think the Europeans aren't too excited about freezing next winter.

 

Right again. So if our allies in Europe are unwilling to take measures against this blustering plutocrat, what are we to do? The common answer is unilateral sanctions and a revocation of visas. Is that enough? Would that even begin to put a dent in the economic power he wields?

So, why bring President Obama into it at all?

 

President Looney Toon and his other laughable followers are well known for ignorance in Asia and Africa.

They have supported a terror group known as the Muslim Brotherhood

Give weapons to terror groups in Syria, famous red line speech, hahahaha what a joke.

Supported uprising in Libya which ultimately lead to Benghazi

 

During re election campaign was heard telling Russians wait till he was re elected so he could have more say.

Continually pisses Israel off with his support of PAlestinians.

 

As leader of free world allows North Korea to do whatever to their people.

As leader of free world allows Iran to proceed in building NUKES.

 

So why shouldn't other countries do whatever, our supreme leader doesn't have guts to stop anything.

 

President Looney Toon and his other laughable followers are well known for ignorance in Asia and Africa.

They have supported a terror group known as the Muslim Brotherhood

Give weapons to terror groups in Syria, famous red line speech, hahahaha what a joke.

Supported uprising in Libya which ultimately lead to Benghazi

 

During re election campaign was heard telling Russians wait till he was re elected so he could have more say.

Continually pisses Israel off with his support of PAlestinians.

 

As leader of free world allows North Korea to do whatever to their people.

As leader of free world allows Iran to proceed in building NUKES.

 

So why shouldn't other countries do whatever, our supreme leader doesn't have guts to stop anything.

 

I am do confused...what do you want from America? Are we the world's police? Or not? Should we continue to stretch our military thin, into action in every conflict in the world? Or bring our troops home? Some of you are just spoiling to blame Obama for something. You can't blame Putin on Obama, though. And, frankly, the EU is who needs to step in. They are directly affected by Russia's actions in Crimea.

RM calm down and take down your DNC defense shield. What everyone has tried to point out is that the US President has lost face internationally with the way our country has handled most international incidents over the last 6 years. The President may or may not have made prudent decisions but they come off as weak around the world. Putin has been wanting to reform some form of the USSR for years and has slowly been working towards that. A weak international profile of the US has done nothing to give Putin pause but he may have reacted the same way if Reagan or JFK was President.

 

I DO NOT want the US to commit military forces to the Ukraine but we need to be strong enough to force Putin's hand diplomatically.