LN's post should be referred to repeatedly when the question of transfers come up. He has the current KHSAA transfer approach clearly laid out there. Bottom line - if I may be presumptious enough to summarize:

 

1. Only those directly involved in the transfer (family, KHSAA) really know the circumstances leading to the transfer.

 

2. Unless it is absolutely clear that the transfer is purely for athletics or in blatant violation of the rules, the current inclination is to allow the transfer.

 

 

Cliff Notes for LN's post. A great idea. Thanks.:clap:

 

I do appreciate LN's insight and the amount of time that he takes to share his experience with us. Plenty of things in life are not as simple as they seem.

Cliff Notes for LN's post. A great idea. Thanks.:clap:

 

I do appreciate LN's insight and the amount of time that he takes to share his experience with us. Plenty of things in life are not as simple as they seem.

 

The older I get, the grayer the world becomes.

The older I get, the grayer the world becomes.

 

And our hair!

And our hair!

 

Those of us who are fortunate enough to have a little bit remaining.

 

*Cough (spindoc) ​Cough*

LN's post should be referred to repeatedly when the question of transfers come up. He has the current KHSAA transfer approach clearly laid out there. Bottom line - if I may be presumptious enough to summarize:

 

1. Only those directly involved in the transfer (family, KHSAA) really know the circumstances leading to the transfer.

 

2. Unless it is absolutely clear that the transfer is purely for athletics or in blatant violation of the rules, the current inclination is to allow the transfer.

 

 

Look I like everyone else on BGP appreciates LN and his BOC time. But let's cut to the chase-he has basically said you can transfer without penalty. And that is what we all thought.

 

#1 is akin to a leader saying you don't know all the reasons we are going to war, but we are going to war. Deal with it. That is fair and happens, but is a head scratch-er.

#2 is stated to allow said transfer to happen.

 

Recruit away coaches, players and athletic directors. The high school system now has completely been corrupted now too. Don't know what can be done about it but it is a shame.

Okay, we may have covered every angle of the McClendon transfer by now. A while back one BGP veteran claimed that another top-shelf player was likely to transfer to Holmes with the goal of playing next year. Without violating any confidences, does anyone have an update on that situation?

 

I heard about this way back in January...which again goes back to my comment that while athletics probably played some role in the decision to transfer, there are also other factors that led to this happening.

 

As far as some of the other things I've heard..... :idunno:

You all are crazy if you don't think basketball is 100% the reason this kid transfered. Nothing against him or Holmes but he should not be eligible next year.

Observations from my time on the Board of Control: very, very often there are circumstances surrounding transfers that, due to state laws involving privacy, do not become public. This has the unfortunate result of the "public" not knowing all the factors behind why a kid was determined to be eligible or ineligible. I saw undenied situations of violence, discrimination, genuine and severe financial hardship, learning disabilities better handled at the receiving school, big academic problems at the sending school, etc involved in transfers when I was on the BOC. Things that in my opinion far outweighed the impact a kid would have on wins and losses at the new school or at his/her former school, and thus caused me to vote in favor of eligibility. For the record, I have zero idea if any of those type of circumstances are involved here and quite frankly I don't want to know. It's none of my business.

 

Back in the day when I joined the BOC, the KHSAA had a very strong and definite bias against transfers and would ignore facts and circumstances indicating that the transfer was bona fide. I could load up Rob's server with example after example of the KHSAA making the wrong decision due to biases and personal baggage of the BOC members. Which resulted in the General Assembly stepping in and reining in what I considered a rogue, "Star Chamber" mentality at the KHSAA. I'm quite proud of the role I played in getting the General Assembly's attention. The mentality at the time was "we are the KHSAA and we'll do whatever we want". They found out the hard way, with ample pre-warnings, that they were wrong.

 

Shortly before I left the BOC, the mentality of the KHSAA was changing. Some of it had to do with the General Assembly's "input"; some of it had to do with a general change in philosophy at the KHSAA. No longer was there a bias against transfers but rather there was a belief that high school sports go by quickly for teenagers and if a transfer showed evidence complying with the transfer rule, the kid would be determined to be eligible absent strong evidence either indicating athletic intent or that the evidence the student provided was false. I totally agreed and still agree with the new approach.

 

The fact that a kid will be joining a really good team is not strong evidence of athletic intent. Not in a court of law and not in a state agency regulatory process (the KHSAA is the State's appointed agent to administer high school athletics and the KHSAA must comply with the laws impacting state agencies). At best, a kid transferring from a weak team to a strong team may be some very weak circumstantial evidence, but it by itself, is not sufficient evidence to determine ineligibility. It may be someone's hunch as to what is behind the transfer, but fortunately "hunches", "guesses' and "what I feel in my gut" are no longer used to determine eligibility determinations. Yes, while I was on the BOC, a transfer with solid evidence of a bona fide change of residence was denied eligibility because one very vocal and dominant BOC member stated that he was opposed to eligibility and the hearing officer's recommendation of eligibility for no other reason than "I just have a gut feeling". That was a shameful moment in the KHSAA's history.

 

 

At least to me anyway, most of adults following high school athletics get too wrapped up on winning and losing. I understand why it happens. It's natural. They have a son or daughter, or a nephew or niece, or a grandson or granddaughter playing and they want that relative to play on a state championship team. They are huge supporters of the local team and they want their community school to win a state championship. When a transfer is approved that could adversely impact the chances of that state championship happening, they get all riled up. Again, I understand why it happens. But as I've observed over and over again, when I joined the Ft. Thomas City Council or was appointed to the KHSAA, the Airport Board, the Tri-Ed Board or currently the Sanitation District Board, once you get "inside" the perspective is quite different that what it appeared to be when you were on the outside.

 

This may sound heretical coming from a Highlands football guy, but I do not come close to judging a particular Highlands football team's success on whether they won a state championship. State championships mean little to me. Oh, don't get me wrong, when it happens I'm happy. But I work hard not to lose focus on the real purpose of high school athletics. I'm quite certain that my time on the BOC, having had the opportunity to see and work with "adults" who gave lip service to the values of participation but made decisions based on winning and losing, opened my eyes and allowed me to gain a much better perspective on high school athletics.

 

leatherneck, that may be the single best post I have ever seen on BGP. Well done sir!

Observations from my time on the Board of Control: very, very often there are circumstances surrounding transfers that, due to state laws involving privacy, do not become public. This has the unfortunate result of the "public" not knowing all the factors behind why a kid was determined to be eligible or ineligible. I saw undenied situations of violence, discrimination, genuine and severe financial hardship, learning disabilities better handled at the receiving school, big academic problems at the sending school, etc involved in transfers when I was on the BOC. Things that in my opinion far outweighed the impact a kid would have on wins and losses at the new school or at his/her former school, and thus caused me to vote in favor of eligibility. For the record, I have zero idea if any of those type of circumstances are involved here and quite frankly I don't want to know. It's none of my business.

 

Back in the day when I joined the BOC, the KHSAA had a very strong and definite bias against transfers and would ignore facts and circumstances indicating that the transfer was bona fide. I could load up Rob's server with example after example of the KHSAA making the wrong decision due to biases and personal baggage of the BOC members. Which resulted in the General Assembly stepping in and reining in what I considered a rogue, "Star Chamber" mentality at the KHSAA. I'm quite proud of the role I played in getting the General Assembly's attention. The mentality at the time was "we are the KHSAA and we'll do whatever we want". They found out the hard way, with ample pre-warnings, that they were wrong.

 

Shortly before I left the BOC, the mentality of the KHSAA was changing. Some of it had to do with the General Assembly's "input"; some of it had to do with a general change in philosophy at the KHSAA. No longer was there a bias against transfers but rather there was a belief that high school sports go by quickly for teenagers and if a transfer showed evidence complying with the transfer rule, the kid would be determined to be eligible absent strong evidence either indicating athletic intent or that the evidence the student provided was false. I totally agreed and still agree with the new approach.

 

The fact that a kid will be joining a really good team is not strong evidence of athletic intent. Not in a court of law and not in a state agency regulatory process (the KHSAA is the State's appointed agent to administer high school athletics and the KHSAA must comply with the laws impacting state agencies). At best, a kid transferring from a weak team to a strong team may be some very weak circumstantial evidence, but it by itself, is not sufficient evidence to determine ineligibility. It may be someone's hunch as to what is behind the transfer, but fortunately "hunches", "guesses' and "what I feel in my gut" are no longer used to determine eligibility determinations. Yes, while I was on the BOC, a transfer with solid evidence of a bona fide change of residence was denied eligibility because one very vocal and dominant BOC member stated that he was opposed to eligibility and the hearing officer's recommendation of eligibility for no other reason than "I just have a gut feeling". That was a shameful moment in the KHSAA's history.

 

 

At least to me anyway, most of adults following high school athletics get too wrapped up on winning and losing. I understand why it happens. It's natural. They have a son or daughter, or a nephew or niece, or a grandson or granddaughter playing and they want that relative to play on a state championship team. They are huge supporters of the local team and they want their community school to win a state championship. When a transfer is approved that could adversely impact the chances of that state championship happening, they get all riled up. Again, I understand why it happens. But as I've observed over and over again, when I joined the Ft. Thomas City Council or was appointed to the KHSAA, the Airport Board, the Tri-Ed Board or currently the Sanitation District Board, once you get "inside" the perspective is quite different that what it appeared to be when you were on the outside.

 

This may sound heretical coming from a Highlands football guy, but I do not come close to judging a particular Highlands football team's success on whether they won a state championship. State championships mean little to me. Oh, don't get me wrong, when it happens I'm happy. But I work hard not to lose focus on the real purpose of high school athletics. I'm quite certain that my time on the BOC, having had the opportunity to see and work with "adults" who gave lip service to the values of participation but made decisions based on winning and losing, opened my eyes and allowed me to gain a much better perspective on high school athletics.

 

Help me to understand the workings of the KHSAA Board of Control. I understand it to be a multi-member board each with a vote in these type of situations.

 

To the first bolded - many situations where the board got it wrong and ignored evidence - was this in hindsight that you came to the realization that the decisions were wrong, or you were simply outvoted?

 

To the second bolded - one member was able to convince a majority of the board members to vote in a manner they did not agree with on a "hunch".

 

 

I am in the camp of those that say eliminate the rule all together. If you can not enforce a rule or are not willing to defend the enforcement of the rule , get rid of it.

Help me to understand the workings of the KHSAA Board of Control. I understand it to be a multi-member board each with a vote in these type of situations.

 

To the first bolded - many situations where the board got it wrong and ignored evidence - was this in hindsight that you came to the realization that the decisions were wrong, or you were simply outvoted?

 

To the second bolded - one member was able to convince a majority of the board members to vote in a manner they did not agree with on a "hunch".

 

 

I am in the camp of those that say eliminate the rule all together. If you can not enforce a rule or are not willing to defend the enforcement of the rule , get rid of it.

 

Or simply ignore it. Recruit away.

Or simply ignore it. Recruit away.

So he got recruited?

So he got recruited?

 

Didn't have to all he had to do was look at who he was going to play with and who he couldn play with and it was simple.

So he got recruited?

 

If you were hungry where would you go?

 

Holy Cross = a bare cupboard

Holmes = a smorgasbord of goodies.

My reply with quote button is not working, so:History, if you are stating that any player can transfer freely without penalty even if the player does not comply with one of the transfer rule exceptions, you misinterpreted my post badly. I'll boil down my post so it is clear for you and everyone else:A. the public does not and cannot know all the facts due to privacy laws. The KHSAA doesn't write the privacy laws or necessary have to agree with them. But they have to comply with them. Do you think your analogizing a kid's eligibility decision with a decision to go to war is proof that some folks get too wrapped up over high school sports? World of difference between the two in my opinion.B. there used to be a strong bias against transfers, even when there was solid evidence that the transfer complied with one of the exceptions. In my opinion, the BOC was often wrong to ignore that evidence. C. currently, there is I believe a philosophy at the KHSAA that, if there is evidence that a transfer complies with one of the exceptions and the KHSAA does not determine that the evidence presented by the transfer (which satisfied the exception) was false or that there was athletic intent, the kid will get to play.The KHSAA still does an investigation. They are not turning a blind eye to recruiting, false information, etc.Coaches that recruit, as you encourage them to do, better do it very carefully or they and their school will be, and should be, penalized. Severely.Stinkboy, you are correct about each BOC member having one vote. My observations were not in hindsight. I regularly voted for a kid to be eligible and was outvoted. I'm a lawyer. Trained to ascertain facts and apply the law. The KHSAA's hearing officers are lawyers, likewise trained to ascertain the facts and apply the law. The BOC all too frequently paid no attention to either my assessment, or much more importantly, their own hearing officer's assessment. They did so in my opinion because they had an unfair bias against transfers being eligible. Under the current procedure, the KHSAA administration follows the recommendation of their paid hearing officers much more frequently (as they should in my opinion). For those that either don't know or have forgotten, the BOC used to have the final say or vote on eligibility matters. They no longer do and are removed from the eligibility process. The KHSAA administration now has the final say. It is a much fairer system now.

Sorry for the" compact" nature of the prior post. It's not how I typed it. Try to edit it but can't. Makes it difficult to read.