IMO if you have to go look up stats to see if a guy is worthy, he's not.

 

HOFers are obvious.

 

I agree, just watching Biggio play made in obvious.

 

Also, if stats are as meaningless as you think, why do the voters do so much in-depth research before casting their ballots? Shouldn't it be a simple, quick process of "he passes the look test" or "he doesn't"?

His statistics say he was elite. If Barry Larkin deserves to be in, Biggio should be a shoe-in first ballot guy.

 

I think the two of them are pretty comparable. Larkin turned out to be a second ballot...I don't see what the big to do is about Biggio not making it in on his first ballot.

I think the two of them are pretty comparable. Larkin turned out to be a second ballot...I don't see what the big to do is about Biggio not making it in on his first ballot.

 

He was statistically better than Larkin in almost every facet of the game.

I'm with you. I think there are a lot of guys wanting to leave them out for a year as some sort of nominal punishment. Bonds and Clemens are in next year.

 

Greg Maddux is a slam dunk for next year. I would also put Frank Thomas in

Greg Maddux is a slam dunk for next year. I would also put Frank Thomas in

 

I'll cosign that.

Greg Maddux is a slam dunk for next year. I would also put Frank Thomas in

I hope they both get accused of PED use.

I hope they both get accused of PED use.

 

If they do, I wouldn't vote for them. I am not saying I would never vote for a user, but I definitely would never vote for one on the first ballot. I would personally not vote for anyone suspected of using in their first five years of eligibility and I might even extend it out to ten years. There should be a penalty IMO.

Biggio should have gotten in..How and who votes for the HOF needs to be reevaluated.

I hope they both get accused of PED use.

 

If Maddux used, he did it all wrong. Not exactly the body of a steroid user :-)

Theres no way to know who all was doing what. I say go by the stats. You cant punish some and ignore others.

 

I agree I have always said the whole witch hunt was wrong to do, because yes they caught some people but there are probably hundreds more who did not get caught. I am glad it made them put something in place to stop it, however they should not go back and punish those players because baseball Bud Selig and baseball was letting them do it. They knew exactly what was going on, however they were still trying to win the fans back from the 95 strike so they turned a blind eye. So if they were going to do nothing about it then, they should not turn around and punish them now.

 

Not saying I agree with the players for doing it. However I think it was even more wrong for baseball to allow it to go on, because there is no way they didn't know it was going on.

Those who posted above in this thread saying the Hall of Famers should be voting will not like the comments I have seen from HOF players. They are calling the users cheaters and are happy the writers voted the way they did. I have not seen one HOF player say Bonds and Clemens should have been voted in. I am sure there will be some HOF player who will say they should be in but I haven't seen it yet.

So, let's see...arguably the greatest hitter, pitcher and home run hitter of all time are not in the Hall of Fame.

Those who posted above in this thread saying the Hall of Famers should be voting will not like the comments I have seen from HOF players. They are calling the users cheaters and are happy the writers voted the way they did. I have not seen one HOF player say Bonds and Clemens should have been voted in. I am sure there will be some HOF player who will say they should be in but I haven't seen it yet.

 

I don't have a problem with keeping them out in principle. However, there is just so much unkown, and so much that will never be known. Bonds admitted he unknowingly used....he never failed a test and you can't prove any different. Same with Clemens and Sosa. Those that actually failed tests, I don't have a huge problem not seeing them in...but it seems many of those guys are borderline anyway. Despite Palmiero's numbers, I didn't see him as a sure fire, first ballot guy. This whole guilt by association, or passing the "eye" test, just doesn't work.

I have no problem with keeping bonds, Clemens Sosa etc. out of the HOF. Cheating is cheating and there is no room in the Hall for cheaters. I don't care how great they were before they started using PED's, the fact they used them which undoubtedly made them better in the game is reason enough to keep them out.

 

The Hall of Fame should be something very special, for those players that were naturally the best who ever played. Keep them out and I am fine with it.

So, let's see...arguably the greatest hitter, pitcher and home run hitter of all time are not in the Hall of Fame.

 

Well the so called greatest home run hitter wasn't the greatest home run hitter until he started cheating.

end of argument.