I have no problem with keeping bonds, Clemens Sosa etc. out of the HOF. Cheating is cheating and there is no room in the Hall for cheaters. I don't care how great they were before they started using PED's, the fact they used them which undoubtedly made them better in the game is reason enough to keep them out.

 

The Hall of Fame should be something very special, for those players that were naturally the best who ever played. Keep them out and I am fine with it.

While I understand cheating is bad, it is the double standard of it all. By not eliminating the problem from the start, baseball was indirectly encouraging players to use PEDs. Still the best is a big chunk of the people voting against these people are the same people which always knew this was going on and benefited from their success.

I wonder how many of these baseball writers voted for these players for Cy Young, MVP, etc. The writers turned a blind eye then. MLB turned a blind eye then. Based on this years vote, how can you vote anyone into the HOF who played from 1990-2005. There is no way to tell if they were users or not. Some of the guys that got huge, there is definately doubt. What about the guys who used to recover from an injury.

I wonder how many of these baseball writers voted for these players for Cy Young, MVP, etc. The writers turned a blind eye then. MLB turned a blind eye then. Based on this years vote, how can you vote anyone into the HOF who played from 1990-2005. There is no way to tell if they were users or not. Some of the guys that got huge, there is definately doubt. What about the guys who used to recover from an injury.

You are right, it is big time stupid. I am willing to bet the vast majority of players were doing something to aid in strength, power, or recovery. Again, it was indirectly encouraged.

Why is the uproar over Bonds, Clemens, and Biggio? Bonds and Clemens weren't going to get in as soon as McGwire didn't for the same reason. Bagwell won't get in due to the fact that he was a muscular dude in the steroid era. Guilty by association. (It is just a modern day witch hunt.) Biggio was borderline. 3,000 hits used to be automatic, but it is not if you played in the steroid era b/c steroid use was much worse than the greenies and uppers used in the 60s and 70s.

 

My problem is that they didn't vote in Piazza. For about 6 seasons, he could arguably be called the best hitter in the game, until Bonds went nuts. He was amazing at bat. How is he not in the Hall of Fame?

Well the so called greatest home run hitter wasn't the greatest home run hitter until he started cheating.

end of argument.

 

It's not just the end of the argument. I don't care if he was a robot. He deserves to be in the Hall of Fame.

I'm curious...have any of you guys been to the Baseball Hall of Fame?

I'm curious...have any of you guys been to the Baseball Hall of Fame?

 

NO but it is on my list of things to do.

Those who posted above in this thread saying the Hall of Famers should be voting will not like the comments I have seen from HOF players. They are calling the users cheaters and are happy the writers voted the way they did. I have not seen one HOF player say Bonds and Clemens should have been voted in. I am sure there will be some HOF player who will say they should be in but I haven't seen it yet.

Current HOFers have too much incentive to keep the numbers low.

I have no problem with keeping bonds, Clemens Sosa etc. out of the HOF. Cheating is cheating and there is no room in the Hall for cheaters. I don't care how great they were before they started using PED's, the fact they used them which undoubtedly made them better in the game is reason enough to keep them out.

 

The Hall of Fame should be something very special, for those players that were naturally the best who ever played. Keep them out and I am fine with it.

Aaron, Mays, and Schmidt all used PED's. Want to kick them out?

So, let's see...arguably the greatest hitter, pitcher and home run hitter of all time are not in the Hall of Fame.

 

This is part of the problem for me. There is no doubt that Bonds and Clemens numbers are steroid inflated. Clemens picked up about 150 wins after 33 when his numbers were starting to slide a little. All of a sudden he is 28 year old Roger again. That is a lot of wins. Without steroids, I wonder if Clemens would have even won 300 games. Same with Bonds. He hit something like 300 HR's after age 35. I don't mind calling these guys Hall of Fame calibre players because they were great before 'roids. However, I have a HUGE problem calling them the greatest hitter and greatest pitcher ever. They cheated to get those numbers. Unfortunately, we really don't know how great their careers would have been because they cheated.

It's not just the end of the argument. I don't care if he was a robot. He deserves to be in the Hall of Fame.

 

No he doesn't. If he deserved to be in he wouldn't of cheated. He was great at the beginning of his career before he used steroids and HGH and his head rivaled a Macy's day parade float. He choosing to cheat was his decision and his decision only and he with that stupid choice chose not to be a hall of fame player.

Simple as that. I don't care if he hit 2,000 home runs, he chose to use drugs to enhance his strentgh and body and improve his game therefor any right he had was forfeited when it comes to the Hall of Fame. If he wanted in the Hall of Fame all he had to do is not cheat. It is pretty simple, people are making it complicated and it doesn't need to be complicated.

 

Anytime you use something that will improve your performance and give you an advantage over your peers you lose all rights in my book to the Hall of Fame.

Aaron, Mays, and Schmidt all used PED's. Want to kick them out?

 

Show me proof Aaron, Mays and Schmidt used steroids or HGH.

Those who posted above in this thread saying the Hall of Famers should be voting will not like the comments I have seen from HOF players. They are calling the users cheaters and are happy the writers voted the way they did. I have not seen one HOF player say Bonds and Clemens should have been voted in. I am sure there will be some HOF player who will say they should be in but I haven't seen it yet.

 

 

As I said, I can accept it from the players. Not from writers. Not the writers who helped cover it up and played stupid the whole time.

Show me proof Aaron, Mays and Schmidt used steroids or HGH.

 

Show me proof Bonds, Clemens, Piazza, Biggio, Murphy, etc used steroids. None of them ever tested positive.

Why is the uproar over Bonds, Clemens, and Biggio? Bonds and Clemens weren't going to get in as soon as McGwire didn't for the same reason. Bagwell won't get in due to the fact that he was a muscular dude in the steroid era. Guilty by association. (It is just a modern day witch hunt.) Biggio was borderline. 3,000 hits used to be automatic, but it is not if you played in the steroid era b/c steroid use was much worse than the greenies and uppers used in the 60s and 70s.

 

My problem is that they didn't vote in Piazza. For about 6 seasons, he could arguably be called the best hitter in the game, until Bonds went nuts. He was amazing at bat. How is he not in the Hall of Fame?

 

Biggio didn't get in because of the steroid era, he didn't get in because he was an average player. Yes he got 3,000 hits but that was over a very long career. He was a .280 hitter, nothing special about that. He played for 20 years and only had 4 seasons where he batted higher than .290 He only had 1 200 hit season. He's had more 100 strike out seasons than seasons he hit over .290 and 200 hit seasons combined. Biggio was a good player, but not Hall of Fame worthy.

Edited January 10, 201313 yr by Hellbird