Not sure I follow.

 

If the Obama Administration is going to basically arm the bad guys why would they take/restrict guns from the good guys/2nd Amendment protected citizens? Seems like any chance of gun control they wanted they just blew their credibility when it comes to guns and who has them.

The plan was to allow guns to be sold in straw purchases in the US than allow them to make their way to Mexico in an effort to track them back to drug cartels / other bad guys. Lot's of guns were allowed to "walk". Two of those guns showed up at the scene of a shooting where a boarder agent was killed. First, gun walking is no no. Second, the ATF/DOJ did a terrible job of keeping track of the guns. They lost most of them and basically armed the bad guys.

 

Thanks for the info. I appreciate it.

 

Not only that but in this case everything was completely one-sided in the case that the Mexican government was kept out of the loop and wasn't involved. There was a similar operation under the Bush administration called operation Wide Receiver but there were several key differences between them including mutual cooperation between both the US and Mexico as well as not allowing the guns to cross the border.

 

There are many people trying to equate the two programs but the fact is they can't be because the differences between them and the subsequent actions of Holder and Obama have caused this to get as much media attention that it now has.

Anyone that slams a President for not being transparent 100% of the time is either ignorant or playing politics.

 

I have no idea what President Obama is holding back but I sure as hell do not expect the POTUS to show the world every piece of information he is privy to. Asinine.

 

I agree that the public does not need to know everything about everything.

 

But in this case there was at least one US death and untold Mexican deaths. The people who are responsible should be brought to light.

If the Obama Administration is going to basically arm the bad guys why would they take/restrict guns from the good guys/2nd Amendment protected citizens? Seems like any chance of gun control they wanted they just blew their credibility when it comes to guns and who has them.

 

It wasn't supposed to be known this was happening.

 

Most pressure and examples of why we need gun control are coming from Mexico.....

So you think he has to disclose all info he has on everything ?

 

Not at all. I am supportive of Executive Privilege. But the President blasted his predecessor for hiding behind it, which is why I think this is different.

It wasn't supposed to be known this was happening.

 

Most pressure and examples of why we need gun control are coming from Mexico.....

 

I see your point but how can this administration say we need gun control but at the same time be arming Mexican gangs? That's a huge conflict of interest in my eyes.

I see your point but how can this administration say we need gun control but at the same time be arming Mexican gangs? That's a huge conflict of interest in my eyes.

There's a line of thought they would have eventually used this to push gun control. Basically blame our "lax" gun laws for allowing all of these legally purchased guns to end up in the hands of criminals. The public wasn't suppose to know it was in fact the DOJ that was behind it all. That's probably why Holder lied about knowing anything about FandF. Also why the POTUS lied on Larry King about knowing about FandF.

There's a line of thought they would have eventually used this to push gun control. Basically blame our "lax" gun laws for allowing all of these legally purchased guns to end up in the hands of criminals. The public wasn't suppose to know it was in fact the DOJ that was behind it all. That's probably why Holder lied about knowing anything about FandF. Also why the POTUS lied on Larry King about knowing about FandF.

 

There've been reports that upwards of 70,000 guns (about 80% of what's been recovered) used in cartel violence are legally purchased in the U.S. and trafficked down there. That was before this debacle took place. Hard to buy that the DOJ is behind all of that or only piled on a few more to make it an issue.

F&F is not going to have an impact on voting in November. Even if Holder gets nailed it's not going to have an impact.

 

"

 

Let's not discount the notion that Pres. Obama might be protecting his own ox, not Holder's.

There've been reports that upwards of 70,000 guns (about 80% of what's been recovered) used in cartel violence are legally purchased in the U.S. and trafficked down there. That was before this debacle took place. Hard to buy that the DOJ is behind all of that or only piled on a few more to make it an issue.

Didn't say it was my line of thinking just that it was a theory that was out there. There's probably more to the theory that left out but I put the cliff notes version.

I agree that the public does not need to know everything about everything.

 

But in this case there was at least one US death and untold Mexican deaths. The people who are responsible should be brought to light.

 

Aren't the people who shot the guns those responsible for the shootings?

Yes, along with those who sold them the guns, knowing the type of people they were selling them to.

There've been reports that upwards of 70,000 guns (about 80% of what's been recovered) used in cartel violence are legally purchased in the U.S. and trafficked down there. That was before this debacle took place. Hard to buy that the DOJ is behind all of that or only piled on a few more to make it an issue.

 

The 'Iron River' catch phrase came from an ATF spokesman in 2007.

 

Iron river of guns flows from U.S. to Mexico | Reuters

 

"Just as you see the flow of drugs that comes north, there is an iron river of guns that flows south into Mexico to supply criminal organizations on the border," said Tom Mangan, senior special agent with ATF in Phoenix.

 

 

"They are in the market for machine guns, hand grenades, rocket-propelled grenade launchers and Stinger anti-aircraft missiles ... It's like they are outfitting an army," he added.

 

 

The ATF says the gangs favor high-powered AR-15 and Kalashnikov assault rifles, semi-automatic versions of which can be bought at gun shops and gun shows.

 

Somehow gangs favoring ARs and Kalashnikovs which you can by at any gun show for around $400 turned into grenade-launchers, automatic machine guns (that are illegal in the US) and Stinger missiles.

 

It has been documented that the 'heavy stuff' does not come from the US.

 

http://www.examiner.com/article/iron-river-of-guns-into-mexico-is-actually-a-trickle

 

The true automatic weapons and heavier weapons didn't come from the US gun market. They came from the Mexican military or international arms trade.

Yes, along with those who sold them the guns, knowing the type of people they were selling them to.

 

I thought that we pro-2nd amendment people only held shooters responsible for gun crime, not those that sold them the weapons.

Is it possible that the info that is being held back could cause harm to other agents?