The program wa suspended for a year. You can sugar coat it all you want, but that sounds like today's death penalty to me. And yes, it did come under Rupp's watch. Check the history books.

 

If you want to check the history books, you will find scandal throughout our checkered past. Do you really think Eddie Sutton is the only KY coach that ever did something under the table? There is other stuff and to his credit Tubby stayed away from scandal, but having integrity is only part of the job.

 

Tubby's tenure had its ups and downs just like all the others. I believe he won a championship that would have not been won by any past Kentucky coach (including Pitino) because of his knack for making in-game adjustments. Tubby's problem was that he would sometimes go an entire recruiting season without landing one significant recruit. He always had a star or two, but he never had a stable full.

 

I recently watched the '75 championship game and either Curt Gowdy or Billy Packer remarked during that game that Joe Hall could go 10 deep without dropping off. Hall had that kind of talent at UK for most of his career.

 

UK has not had that much extraordinary talent since 1996 and the guy doing the recruiting for most of that time was Tubby. I loved him as a coach, but he allowed the program to regress.

UK was suspended because of the Point Shaving scandal. The Cats from '49 admitted to "shaving points." The NCAA then suspended UK for the '53 season. The result was that Hagan, Ramsey and Tsroupoulus (sp?) graduated on time in the spring of '53.

 

The next year they were playing their last year of eligibility as grad students. 2/3 through the season a Courier Journal columnist uncovered an NCAA rule prohibiting Grad students from then playing in the NCAA. Rather than risk their #1 ranking and 25-0 mark they voted not to go to the tourney. FWIW that Cat team defeated the '54 NCAA champ in the season by 13, set a record for winning margin that stood until '72 (27 points per game), and beat the great Bob Pettit and LSU in the season as well.

 

I don't sugar coat things. The penalty had more to do with the players than with Rupp and it had to do with an NCAA that was concerned with Rupp's arrogance and dominance of the game then.

Read this book:Kentucky's Domain of Power, Greed and Corruption (Paperback)

by Betty Ellison (Author) No one said that YOU sugar coated things, you weren't even in the conversation. That the NCAA is out to get them could be a lot of coaches excuse. Your hisotry sounds about right. The point is that Tubby had a lot more competition, what, 200 other teams also trying to get to the Final Four? And NEVER a hint of cheating. I am a diehard UK fan, but I also live in the real world, and UK kind of invented cheating in the college game. Read the book and you will see.

If you want to check the history books, you will find scandal throughout our checkered past. Do you really think Eddie Sutton is the only KY coach that ever did something under the table? There is other stuff and to his credit Tubby stayed away from scandal, but having integrity is only part of the job.

 

Tubby's tenure had its ups and downs just like all the others. I believe he won a championship that would have not been won by any past Kentucky coach (including Pitino) because of his knack for making in-game adjustments. Tubby's problem was that he would sometimes go an entire recruiting season without landing one significant recruit. He always had a star or two, but he never had a stable full.

 

I recently watched the '75 championship game and either Curt Gowdy or Billy Packer remarked during that game that Joe Hall could go 10 deep without dropping off. Hall had that kind of talent at UK for most of his career.

 

UK has not had that much extraordinary talent since 1996 and the guy doing the recruiting for most of that time was Tubby. I loved him as a coach, but he allowed the program to regress.

To an extent, I agree, but as someone said earlier, everyone has down years.

To an extent, I agree, but as someone said earlier, everyone has down years.

 

And I agree with that to an extent. 1974, 1979, 1985 weren't so kind to Hall. 1994 was terrible for Pitino. I was a Tubby supporter all the way until it became apparent that the class of 07 and class of 09 were sub-par. A good class every other year will not keep you on top especially with so many talented players going pro after a year or two. There has got to be kids that can play in every class if you want to compete at the elite level.

Read this book:Kentucky's Domain of Power, Greed and Corruption (Paperback)

by Betty Ellison (Author) No one said that YOU sugar coated things, you weren't even in the conversation. That the NCAA is out to get them could be a lot of coaches excuse. Your hisotry sounds about right. The point is that Tubby had a lot more competition, what, 200 other teams also trying to get to the Final Four? And NEVER a hint of cheating. I am a diehard UK fan, but I also live in the real world, and UK kind of invented cheating in the college game. Read the book and you will see.

 

I own a copy of that. It could've used some more proofreading, but the research is outstanding. I'm amazed she didn't get killed for it.

Read this book:Kentucky's Domain of Power, Greed and Corruption (Paperback)

by Betty Ellison (Author) No one said that YOU sugar coated things, you weren't even in the conversation. That the NCAA is out to get them could be a lot of coaches excuse. Your hisotry sounds about right. The point is that Tubby had a lot more competition, what, 200 other teams also trying to get to the Final Four? And NEVER a hint of cheating. I am a diehard UK fan, but I also live in the real world, and UK kind of invented cheating in the college game. Read the book and you will see.

 

 

The fact remains that it was the players, not Rupp. A direct quote: "No one has fought for cleaner sports and tried harder to keep them free from gambling than I have, and if anyone had anything on me, I would not be sitting at this desk, and I would not embarrass the university by remaining here."

 

Also: "If I were suspicious, what boys would you trust? What was the guy who wasn't winning - at Northwestern or SMU or some of those other places - thinking about? We walk off with all the trophies they had, and I was supposed to know about it. How stupid can you get?"

 

"I bleed every time the other team makes a basket."

 

We expect coaches to know what is going on, but that's not always possible, and was all but impossible in the 40s.

These threads get better and better every hour...:popcorn::popcorn:

Why can't you people get over it. Tubby left. On his own. And, he also gets part of the blame for where we are right now.

Read this book:Kentucky's Domain of Power, Greed and Corruption (Paperback)

by Betty Ellison (Author) No one said that YOU sugar coated things, you weren't even in the conversation. That the NCAA is out to get them could be a lot of coaches excuse. Your hisotry sounds about right. The point is that Tubby had a lot more competition, what, 200 other teams also trying to get to the Final Four? And NEVER a hint of cheating. I am a diehard UK fan, but I also live in the real world, and UK kind of invented cheating in the college game. Read the book and you will see.

 

First of all, the title tells you the premise and design of the author. I doubt it's a clear understanding of everything you are presuming.

 

Try reading from Russell Rice's book Big Blue Machine. Then realize the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

 

As to the "out to get them excuse," probably not but while you point out Tubby had 200 teams to compete with (hyperbole) Rupp won the NCAA in '48 and '49 but was denied the chance to participate in '50 despite a 25-5 record and being the defending Champs. Why? The NCAA committee chose Everett Case's NC State team with a comparable record. So while the tourney field was smaller then than now, it was also harder to get in.

 

You assert UK invented "cheating." But you don't mention Bradley and CCNY's involvement in the "point shaving" scandal or the similar scandal that rocked UNC under Frank Maguire in the early 60's. There were no NCAA allegations or investigations from the Point Shaving time of '52 until the mid 70's. Then there were some things that Hall was accused of and the NCAA took 2 scholly's for 2 years.

 

A Lexington Herald Leader outlined a payola scandal at UK in the 80's but the NCAA investigation produced nothing. True? Maybe. But not convicted.

 

As to the cheating teams, check out the allegations made after the fact at UCLA's dynasty and Sam Gilbert.

 

Only a few have no stains on their past and while UK is far from saint, they are not the greatest "boogie man" ever either.

Personally I don't think we should have hired Tubby to begin with. If UK had hired Donovan back then we would have won 2 national championship and had a runner up finish.

 

I could not disagree more. Donovan was unproven. Had been at UF 1 season and Marshall before that. Tubby was absoposilutely the right hire at that time. CM Newton got that one right. However, CM's football hire didn't turn out that well!!!

 

And noone knows what would have happened if Donovan was hired then. We also don't know what would have happened if Tubby stayed.

 

Either way, ... none of it matters now.

Tubby Smith was a class act and a great hire at the time, as evidenced by the national championship he won in his first season. He's a good coach, but he and his staff got a little complacent and Tubby was a little too nice in not rolling heads on the staff.

 

I think he left on his own, but at a time he wasn't totally sure he had total support from his bosses.

 

Is he to blame for the current state of the 'Cats? Maybe a bit, but the players he left behind (provided he landed Patterson, which I think he would have) were good enough to win the SEC the last two seasons and make a decent run in the NCAA tournament.

 

2008 ... a potential lineup of Patterson, Bradley, Crawford and a healthy Meeks and Jasper could have gone deep into March. Injuries cost them any chance of that.

 

2009 ... Patterson, Meeks and Jasper would have made up a good nucleus for Gillispie to build around.

You always here what a class act Tubby was at Uk (which I agree with until the end) but no one wants to talk about him having the deal made with Minnesota or at least working on the deal during the season. In my book that was one major classless act by him. Granted the only one I know of while at Uk but a very big one.

 

So all the agents that Mitch is speaking with now who represent the future UK coach (who could possibly still be coaching) are classless as well?

 

Unfortunately, that is the way it works these days. Coaches have agents out working for them, doing all the leg work so they can focus on their job. Then when the time is there for them to look at what is out there, they look. He did not work a deal with Minnesota during the season, but knew he wanted out. I have been at a job while I looked for another job. I know very few people who quit their job to find another one. That doesn't mean they aren't focused on the task at hand, ... just want to look at other possible opportunities if they are no longer happy where they are at. That is life and nothing classless about it. Which do you think is more classless, ... meeting with your players and telling them you are leaving as the coach then hopping on a plane to Minnesota (Tubby) OR letting your team know you are leaving to take another job via text message while you are en route to the press conference to announce you as the new coach at your new job (BCG)? Do you think that Pitino's people weren't being contacted during the season in 1996 & 1997? That's hogwash. Of course they were.

 

If you aren't happy at your current job, you look for another and if the right opportunity comes along, you take it.

I could not disagree more. Donovan was unproven. Had been at UF 1 season and Marshall before that. Tubby was absoposilutely the right hire at that time. CM Newton got that one right. However, CM's football hire didn't turn out that well!!!

 

And noone knows what would have happened if Donovan was hired then. We also don't know what would have happened if Tubby stayed.

 

Either way, ... none of it matters now.

 

My post was sarcastic. There is no way anyone can say that if Tubby were here we would still be playing. Maybe we would but to state it as a fact is absurd.

If Tubby was still the coach, this team would have played a lot of zone, and IMO would have won a few more games.

 

However, the S.S. Tubby has sailed to the land of 10,000 lakes. Let it go.

I stand corrected on Saul Smith. He was certainly UK caliber. I went back and check his stats and he shot 35.9% for his career and 67.6% from the line. What more should we expect? 364 assist, 229 turnovers.

 

Let's look at it from this angel. Would UK have recruited Saul if his dad wasn't the coach? I say not a chance unless he promised to bring Dave Baker as his running mate.