It never will be. Anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves. No one needs to look any further than Indiana to see what moving from the one class to multiple does to the tournament.

Indiana's biggest mistake was going to four classes instead of two. Illinois had quite a successful two-class system for more than 30 years, and attendance has dropped off since they went to four classes.

As was stated above, you could have classes and still have the Sweet Sixteen and crown one state champion. If it is 2 classes, then the Sweet Sixteen is the top 8 in each class and the final game is the champion of each class facing off. Go to 4 classes and you have the top 4 from each class play it off till the final 4 is the champ of each class and then they play each other in the semis and finals. Either of those give you a 16 team tourney and one overall champion.

 

For those who are concerned about revenue, I actually think that would almost guarantee great attendance in the final game because there would always be an underdog in the lower class champ trying to beat the big school champ. You also would have more excitement and likely higher attendance for the earlier games as the teams play for a championship in their class.

 

I think obstacles to going to classes beyond tradition are logistics, travel and impact on district and regional championships (including attendance).

 

VOR...I usually agree with you, but I just don't see this working.

 

Take a step back...you really haven't changed anything. You've just created "super regions"... After this is created, the top 2 district teams advance to the regions...the top team advances from the region to the "super regions"...and the top 4 (or 8) teams from the super regions advance to the Sweet 16....I really don't see what you've accomplished. It's just going to be another trophy (for the top team in the "super region", but not really a state championship.

The Sweet 16 is the best of the best in ky. high school sports. I hope they never change to a six class system. I believe the Class A is a great idea also. Becasue one out of ever 10 years you have a class A school that can compete on a state level. The past few years you have had top 15 to 20 teams at the Class A level with Shelby Valley, Elliot Co., and Hazard. That has not be the case since the mid to late 90's with Class A schools such as UHA, Lex. Cath, and Harlan. I believe the system is great at this point with having the Class A for small schools and the Sweet 16 for everyone.

First off, I'm against the class system for Kentucky High School hoops.

 

But (and there's always a "but")...the Sweet 16, at least for me, has lost some of its luster. There's no joy for me in watching a team compete for a Sweet 16 title, when that team was assembled in ways akin to a college hoops team (i.e. recruiting). From my vantage point, that's almost as repulsive as the idea of a class system...almost.

 

I don't see this happening in my lifetime, for reasons many others have articulated here--tradition & money being the big two.

VOR...I usually agree with you, but I just don't see this working.

 

Take a step back...you really haven't changed anything. You've just created "super regions"... After this is created, the top 2 district teams advance to the regions...the top team advances from the region to the "super regions"...and the top 4 (or 8) teams from the super regions advance to the Sweet 16....I really don't see what you've accomplished. It's just going to be another trophy (for the top team in the "super region", but not really a state championship.

 

What gets accomplished is a state title in your class, one overall state champion and the Sweet Sixteen stays in place. That plan sets the brackets in the Sweet Sixteen by class so you get a class champion playing a class chamion for the overall title.

My cousin has taught and coached in Indiana for 35 years. He said the class system that they went to a few years ago had really hurt their state championships. The individual tournaments have low attendance and the public is not crazy about it. He said it was discussed to try an All A concept like Kentucky has, but the decision was made to go to a class system. According to him it is not very popular in the state but he doubts it will ever be changed back.

 

Before Kentucky makes a decision on class system they definitely need to check states that have multiple classes and see what the pros and cons are. It sounds like Indiana might tell them to not make the same mistake they have made.

What gets accomplished is a state title in your class, one overall state champion and the Sweet Sixteen stays in place. That plan sets the brackets in the Sweet Sixteen by class so you get a class champion playing a class chamion for the overall title.

 

It's just another tournament leading up to the big tournament.

What gets accomplished is a state title in your class, one overall state champion and the Sweet Sixteen stays in place. That plan sets the brackets in the Sweet Sixteen by class so you get a class champion playing a class chamion for the overall title.

 

Someone comes up with this "idea" every year.

 

I hate it. You can't have it both ways. You have classes or you don't.

All of this tradition everyone is referring to is controlled by a very small number of schools. There are cinderlla runs and great stories out there and there are teams with great tradition doing it the clean way. What everyone doesn't see or hear about are all the bad situations out there where very tiny schools are in districts and regions that are swamped with big schools and they will never have a chance to go to the state tourny. Do you people know what it is like being around kids year in and year out and they know they have no chance of competing in post season. It just isn't right that the coaches and players out there that try to do things the right way (Practice hard, play hard, run a clean program with no recruiting) are getting punished by having to play schools 10 times their size and schools that recruit and are basically running college programs. You people can call it whatever you want (tradition) but it is an injustice to the people doing things the right way.

LOL Thats why you never hear about Tennessee basketball

All of this tradition everyone is referring to is controlled by a very small number of schools. There are cinderlla runs and great stories out there and there are teams with great tradition doing it the clean way. What everyone doesn't see or hear about are all the bad situations out there where very tiny schools are in districts and regions that are swamped with big schools and they will never have a chance to go to the state tourny. Do you people know what it is like being around kids year in and year out and they know they have no chance of competing in post season. It just isn't right that the coaches and players out there that try to do things the right way (Practice hard, play hard, run a clean program with no recruiting) are getting punished by having to play schools 10 times their size and schools that recruit and are basically running college programs. You people can call it whatever you want (tradition) but it is an injustice to the people doing things the right way.

 

I know exactly what you are talking about...but I still disagree.

 

We are talking about different things entirely - reward for being the best and reward for effort and "doing it the right way." A smart coach finds ways to reward his team for effort and doing things "the right way." All sports should be a life lesson, and whether you are a big school, small school, successful, or not successful, you should be able to teach these life lessons about effort, tenacity, endurance, ethics, and teamwork.

 

There are schools in this state which we all could name that have never, ever, been competitive in basketball, despite "doing the right things" and trying hard. Make it two, four, six, or a dozen classes, and these schools STILL won't be winning championships. Is it still an "injustice"? How many classes would we have to get down to before it is not an "injustice" - and what are you going to do when those same schools still can't win??

 

Your statement that the tradition is controlled by a very small number of schools is not really accurate. This isn't football, where success is so dramatically influenced by simple numbers and where a class system makes sense. Kentucky basketball has had some schools that have had a disproportionate number of wins as compared to other schools (think Ashland, Male, etc.) over many decades, but statistics tells us you will always have some schools that enjoy more success over time. But the bottom line is that a number of schools in KY continue to have their moments of glory. Little Elliott County was a monster the past two years...Paintsville won a state title in the late 90s... Shelby Valley, J. Buchanan, Adair County, Morgan County, Hart County, Barren County, Corbin - all are mid-sized or very small (esp. J. Buchanan!) that have had significant success in the not-too-distant past. Central - last year's state runner-up - is a 3A football school. Every year, "new" faces come out of the crowd at the Sweet 16.

 

Crowning one champion is a rich tradition in Kentucky. And the Sweet 16 becomes a shell of the grand spectacle it currently is if we water it down just so we can hand out more hardware.

 

You bring up a separate point that, IMO, has nothing at all to do with this thread - recruiting. I agree, that recruiting puts some schools at a disadvantage. And, obviously, it has become (in some quarters) way out of control. But that has nothing to do with the class system; one of the smallest schools in the state won a state crown but was later busted for recruiting violations. That misdeed is not unique to big schools.

I certainly see the pros and cons of both sides of the coin. On one side, we have tradition, while on the other we have inequalities. Years ago, the majority of schools were similar in size, but that is no longer the case. In an era of putting the students first, wouldn't a class system be a value-added approach? Giving each school a better opportunity to compete at the state level. I agree that if Football is classed, then everything else should be too. I can't imagine the large St. X's of the 'ville playing the smaller mountain teams of Hazard at the state championship football game.

I believe basketball is about the love of the game and kids. I for one would return to coaching at a small school where basketball is more nostaligic like "Hoosiers". Also, a class system will allow more kids to enjoy the game we all hold dear. Change often collides with traditions, as will it here, but evolution is imminent. :popcorn:

I certainly see the pros and cons of both sides of the coin. On one side, we have tradition, while on the other we have inequalities. Years ago, the majority of schools were similar in size, but that is no longer the case. In an era of putting the students first, wouldn't a class system be a value-added approach? Giving each school a better opportunity to compete at the state level. I agree that if Football is classed, then everything else should be too. I can't imagine the large St. X's of the 'ville playing the smaller mountain teams of Hazard at the state championship football game.

I believe basketball is about the love of the game and kids. I for one would return to coaching at a small school where basketball is more nostaligic like "Hoosiers". Also, a class system will allow more kids to enjoy the game we all hold dear. Change often collides with traditions, as will it here, but evolution is imminent. :popcorn:

 

#1 - Evolution is imminent? Fat chance. The only evolution is something beyond one champion, and that is not going to change. Guaranteed, lock, stock.

 

#2 - Isn't the "More kids to enjoy the game" the same argument they make for football? And yet, so many of us despise the watered down playoff system that saw one district champion get a first round bye this last year.

There is just something about when you team wins, knowing flat out they are the best that state has to offer that feels good. I mean in football, you have 6 teams that can say I am the best. They wont play so who is the real champion. In basketball, Holmes was the best team in the state last year, nobody can argue that, Mason Co the year before and Scott Co the year before that. We know annually who the best is and to water that down is not a good thing.