My first comment is in response to the question beginning the thread. There is no place in basketball for hard fouls. .

 

Let me disagree slightly. A hard foul is not necessarily a dirty play. I'm all for hard fouls done in the right way. Its a legitimate part of the game. The play described in this thread is not a "hard foul", its a cheap shot.

The official can reward the shooting team with a 2 shots and the ball even if its not deemed intentional. If its a foul that could result in serious injury (and usually from behind), it does not have to be intentional to be called.

 

I will agree to disagree. If the ref awards the shooting team 2 shots and the ball, I believe an intentional foul has to be called. They will not award 2 shots and the ball if just a foul is called.

 

I will check this call out w/some of the refs tomorrow night but I think I am right.

I will agree to disagree. If the ref awards the shooting team 2 shots and the ball, I believe an intentional foul has to be called. They will not award 2 shots and the ball if just a foul is called.

 

I will check this call out w/some of the refs tomorrow night but I think I am right.

 

I agree that an intentional has to be called. However, an intentional can be called EVEN if the ref knows that the defender was not intentionally trying to hurt the player. NFHS 4-19-3 says that an a foul shall be ruled intentional "if while playing the ball a player causes excessive contact with an opponent." The "playing the ball" clause gives the official the right to call the intentional foul even if, as the rule says, they were 100% playing the ball. Intent is not a prereq for an intentional foul.

 

I've been at games where this was called and the defender's coach argued that his man was "playing the ball". The confusing part is that the signal is the same so you have to find out from the official what he is actually calling (although the result is the same).

I was disagreeing w/2 shots and the ball w/out making the "intentional foul" call. If an intentional foul is not called there would only be 2 shots. That was my point, whether this is wrong or right I will check. Thanks for the rule explanation as I also have the NFHS rule book and can not find this particular answer even where you have quoted.

I was disagreeing w/2 shots and the ball w/out making the "intentional foul" call. If an intentional foul is not called there would only be 2 shots. That was my point, whether this is wrong or right I will check. Thanks for the rule explanation as I also have the NFHS rule book and can not find this particular answer even where you have quoted.

 

My point is that the intentional foul can be called (2 shots and the ball) even if there was no "intent" to harm. Its sort of misnomer since a foul with excessive force , while completely clean, can also be called intentional.

 

As for where I found it, look under definitions in section 4.

I was at this game and the foul was a 'cheap shot' the Conner player could have very easily been badly hurt. I've been to so many games that seem to be more like tackle basketball than anything else with the refs not doing anything to control this type of behavior. Something needs to be done before someone get hurt bad enough to end their career in basketball.