We are talking sports, so need to keep this story in that perspective, but as far as sports stories go I would call this a real tragedy. CCH won the 2018 state championship in pretty dominating fashion. The results of that year should be an achievement looked at with so much pride. Yet here we are in this situation and discussion. Luke Lenihan played in one game that year. 

22 hours ago, TheConch said:

Hmm, you can lead a horse to water, but can’t make them drink! 

All-Time winningest Coach is school history, who won the schools' only 2 State Titles, isn't enough for HOF bid.

 

With no explanation from the school or Diocese (AD, Principal, Bishop's Office). 

7 hours ago, Voice of Reason said:

We are talking sports, so need to keep this story in that perspective, but as far as sports stories go I would call this a real tragedy. CCH won the 2018 state championship in pretty dominating fashion. The results of that year should be an achievement looked at with so much pride. Yet here we are in this situation and discussion. Luke Lenihan played in one game that year. 

I would argue the 2014 team was as exciting a story - that team had less talent. And the 2 best members of that team - Scott and Nick Ruthsatz - won't be recognized by CCH for some time, if ever again.

 

That's what is sad.

7 hours ago, Voice of Reason said:

We are talking sports, so need to keep this story in that perspective, but as far as sports stories go I would call this a real tragedy. CCH won the 2018 state championship in pretty dominating fashion. The results of that year should be an achievement looked at with so much pride. Yet here we are in this situation and discussion. Luke Lenihan played in one game that year. 

2014 & 2018 State championships. Any coach that achieves that should be celebrated.  This sets the precedent that if you don't play the doctor's kid, your job and reputation could be at risk.  

10 hours ago, Voice of Reason said:

We are talking sports, so need to keep this story in that perspective, but as far as sports stories go I would call this a real tragedy. CCH won the 2018 state championship in pretty dominating fashion. The results of that year should be an achievement looked at with so much pride. Yet here we are in this situation and discussion. Luke Lenihan played in one game that year. 

I actually didn't think he played in any games that year, I know he wasn't on the roster after Christmas. He did play in all 35 games the year prior as a junior.  

I will add that this last piece of information about the Lenihans has been helpful to me in trying to understand how this whole situation evolved including Scott Ruthsatz's resignation. Just theories I now have based on what has been made public and my knowledge of the roster on that 2018 state championship team. 

4 hours ago, Jen T said:

2014 & 2018 State championships. Any coach that achieves that should be celebrated.  This sets the precedent that if you don't play the doctor's kid, your job and reputation could be at risk.  

 

1 hour ago, Legacy26 said:

I actually didn't think he played in any games that year, I know he wasn't on the roster after Christmas. He did play in all 35 games the year prior as a junior.  

The doctors kid did play. Why did he leave the team his senior year?

12 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

 

The doctors kid did play. Why did he leave the team his senior year?

I had to go back and look to see what game he played in, it was one of the first games that he was available to play in as he started both ways on the State Championship football team (scored 2 TDs and had an INT in the championship game) that played until December 4th. The first basketball game was Nov 29th. 

8 hours ago, Voice of Reason said:

The doctors kid did play. Why did he leave the team his senior year?

Luke was one of 3 guys on the team to play in all 35 varsity games in his JR year but then he only saw the court once as a SR. Ruthsatz and Fredrick didn't like it when their players were on the football team and that was never any secret. Sure they played some guys where were undeniably talented by they still discouraged their kids from playing football. They were also always on the lookout for the next greatest player to replace the ones they already had. Lenihan got to his SR year and between continuing to play football and the coaching staff's unending mission to end up with bigger and better players, Luke was persona non grata to the coaching staff once football season ended. Coach Ruthsatz made that loud and clear to Luke around Christmas tourney time and Lenihan was off the roster not long after. Yes, Ruthsatz and Fredrick led the team to win a state championship that year too but it's very safe to say there are alot of people at CCH who don't like the method they used to do it.

Ruthsatz and certain members of his coaching staff were great for the CCH basketball program but absolutely terrible for the CCH community. Families that were involved at CCH for generations moved on to other schools after seeing how Ruthsatz gave zero craps about their kids if they didn't ball out well enough. Ruthsatz and his staff chose to remain completely blind to that being any kind of issue. Many of their starting players chose to remain completely blind to that being any kind of issue. They just respond with "What are we not supposed to start a kid that's better than all the others just because he's new?"

I didn't make it to a home game this past season until the Highlands game in January. After the game I was standing around talking with a group of boosters who are on the event staff for games and I asked them how they felt about the coaching change at CCH after a month of watching Thelen. One guy immediately said "Thelen is a huge personality upgrade." One of the others said "Ruthsatz really moved the program forward but I think there are a whole lot of us relieved he's moved on" and another laughed and said "relieved he's moved on without causing the entire school to implode."

57 minutes ago, The Oracle said:

Luke was one of 3 guys on the team to play in all 35 varsity games in his JR year but then he only saw the court once as a SR. Ruthsatz and Fredrick didn't like it when their players were on the football team and that was never any secret. Sure they played some guys where were undeniably talented by they still discouraged their kids from playing football. They were also always on the lookout for the next greatest player to replace the ones they already had. Lenihan got to his SR year and between continuing to play football and the coaching staff's unending mission to end up with bigger and better players, Luke was persona non grata to the coaching staff once football season ended. Coach Ruthsatz made that loud and clear to Luke around Christmas tourney time and Lenihan was off the roster not long after. Yes, Ruthsatz and Fredrick led the team to win a state championship that year too but it's very safe to say there are alot of people at CCH who don't like the method they used to do it.

Ruthsatz and certain members of his coaching staff were great for the CCH basketball program but absolutely terrible for the CCH community. Families that were involved at CCH for generations moved on to other schools after seeing how Ruthsatz gave zero craps about their kids if they didn't ball out well enough. Ruthsatz and his staff chose to remain completely blind to that being any kind of issue. Many of their starting players chose to remain completely blind to that being any kind of issue. They just respond with "What are we not supposed to start a kid that's better than all the others just because he's new?"

I didn't make it to a home game this past season until the Highlands game in January. After the game I was standing around talking with a group of boosters who are on the event staff for games and I asked them how they felt about the coaching change at CCH after a month of watching Thelen. One guy immediately said "Thelen is a huge personality upgrade." One of the others said "Ruthsatz really moved the program forward but I think there are a whole lot of us relieved he's moved on" and another laughed and said "relieved he's moved on without causing the entire school to implode."

Thanks for all of that. 

Hard to say it was a football thing with the Mayer brothers playing the whole season and AJ being part of the rotation.

It looks like Lenihan got dropped from the rotation because the coaches thought there were better options. A lot of coaches will do that with a senior who isn't in the top 6 or 7. They would rather give those minutes to a younger player. 

 

 

As far as playing time, we were always told it was never guaranteed. Even at NewCath you had the guys that “could play” all 3 sports and not miss a beat.

I don’t like that all coaches not just certain ones, preach multiple sport athletes buy hardly ever are true to their word. That being said if it was this well known why did daddy get in such a huff about playing time?

14 hours ago, Voice of Reason said:

Thanks for all of that. 

Hard to say it was a football thing with the Mayer brothers playing the whole season and AJ being part of the rotation.

It looks like Lenihan got dropped from the rotation because the coaches thought there were better options. A lot of coaches will do that with a senior who isn't in the top 6 or 7. They would rather give those minutes to a younger player. 

 

 

As the late Jim Connor would tell his seniors......at Christmas time if a younger player is equal to you they are replacing you.  Coach Connor would not have done well in the social media age.  ?

This is a tried and true philosophy for many coaches.  A sophomore who can give what a senior gives in late December has a much higher ceiling to improve with playing time by the time districts roll around.  In most cases the senior will have reached their potential at the varsity level.  

 

Based on what I have read over the course of these 23 pages here is my stab at this since Bob and Tony are not going to (nor can they) say anything negative publicly about their bosses.

When CovCath announced the Hall of Fame inductees someone who knew the Diocese forced Coach Ruthsatz out (obviously a limited amount of folks) and disliked him, called the Diocese and said Hey did you know..........This immediately set off a reaction, which is typical for those people at the Diocese, and the edict came down to Bob that sorry he cannot go in.   This leaves Bob's hands and well his mouth tied.  This is how this group operates within the Diocese and this is how I see them doing this.  Trust me nobody at the Diocese is looking at Hall of Fame lists.  That being said I am very middle of the fence as Coach did a great job and is a good human being, but some of these posts make him out to be almost angelic which is laughable.  He was tough to deal with at times which we all are so I think as in many cases it was one of those where it was time to move on after a great run. 

26 minutes ago, cincyswords said:

Based on what I have read over the course of these 23 pages here is my stab at this since Bob and Tony are not going to (nor can they) say anything negative publicly about their bosses.

This is why it is unfair sometimes to pass judgement. One side gets to say whatever they want, but the other cannot. And the side that gets to talk, knows the other side can't. It is a complete imbalance of power and could be considered a bully move.

Same thing with the situation at Cooper. Mike Wilson isn't allowed to get on facebook or twitter and tell his side.

Dr Phil said once "It doesn't matter how flat you make a pancake, it still has two sides."

 

16 hours ago, The Oracle said:

Luke was one of 3 guys on the team to play in all 35 varsity games in his JR year but then he only saw the court once as a SR. Ruthsatz and Fredrick didn't like it when their players were on the football team and that was never any secret. Sure they played some guys where were undeniably talented by they still discouraged their kids from playing football. They were also always on the lookout for the next greatest player to replace the ones they already had. Lenihan got to his SR year and between continuing to play football and the coaching staff's unending mission to end up with bigger and better players, Luke was persona non grata to the coaching staff once football season ended. Coach Ruthsatz made that loud and clear to Luke around Christmas tourney time and Lenihan was off the roster not long after. Yes, Ruthsatz and Fredrick led the team to win a state championship that year too but it's very safe to say there are alot of people at CCH who don't like the method they used to do it.

Ruthsatz and certain members of his coaching staff were great for the CCH basketball program but absolutely terrible for the CCH community. Families that were involved at CCH for generations moved on to other schools after seeing how Ruthsatz gave zero craps about their kids if they didn't ball out well enough. Ruthsatz and his staff chose to remain completely blind to that being any kind of issue. Many of their starting players chose to remain completely blind to that being any kind of issue. They just respond with "What are we not supposed to start a kid that's better than all the others just because he's new?"

I didn't make it to a home game this past season until the Highlands game in January. After the game I was standing around talking with a group of boosters who are on the event staff for games and I asked them how they felt about the coaching change at CCH after a month of watching Thelen. One guy immediately said "Thelen is a huge personality upgrade." One of the others said "Ruthsatz really moved the program forward but I think there are a whole lot of us relieved he's moved on" and another laughed and said "relieved he's moved on without causing the entire school to implode."

I would like to know examples of specific persons who Ruthsatz and Frederick discouraged from playing football. That is a strong accusation, and you can PM me about it. As @Voice of Reason mentioned with the Mayer brothers, that is a weak argument IMO.

This is hard to do, but I'd encourage people to put yourselves in a Coach's shoes: In general, if your job status is determined by wins and losses, who are you going to trust more to help you win games: The guy who you've been training and teaching how to play since June? Or the guy who hasn't picked up a basketball since before the June Dead Period? Every kid has a choice to make and there's nothing wrong with playing multiple sports. There is something wrong with a kid who is not working on basketball for 6 months, and assumes he should be inserted into the lineup over those other dedicated kids, and then blame it on the staff when it doesn't happen. Life does not work that way.

I will wait for an answer to bolded question. 

If playing less-talented kids' just because their Dad's and Uncle's legacies are more important than the program winning, I am surprised Thelen took that job. Didn't make it out to any games this year, but I heard from some people he played a tighter rotation that Ruthsatz. 

 

16 minutes ago, InItToWinIt said:

I would like to know examples of specific persons who Ruthsatz and Frederick discouraged from playing football. That is a strong accusation, and you can PM me about it. As @Voice of Reason mentioned with the Mayer brothers, that is a weak argument IMO.

This is hard to do, but I'd encourage people to put yourselves in a Coach's shoes: In general, if your job status is determined by wins and losses, who are you going to trust more to help you win games: The guy who you've been training and teaching how to play since June? Or the guy who hasn't picked up a basketball since before the June Dead Period? Every kid has a choice to make and there's nothing wrong with playing multiple sports. There is something wrong with a kid who is not working on basketball for 6 months, and assumes he should be inserted into the lineup over those other dedicated kids, and then blame it on the staff when it doesn't happen. Life does not work that way.

I will wait for an answer to bolded question. 

If playing less-talented kids' just because their Dad's and Uncle's legacies are more important than the program winning, I am surprised Thelen took that job. Didn't make it out to any games this year, but I heard from some people he played a tighter rotation that Ruthsatz. 

Parents of kids who aren't playing aren't usually going to be happy, but you aren't entitled to playing time just because you went to grade school somewhere and your dad is an alum. This is competitive athletics and not intramurals. The sense of entitlement is pathetic. 

If you are talented, you can play multiple sports. But if you aren't that talented and want to play, you should be specializing because you don't have the natural gifts to compensate for missed development time. If sports and playing time are important and you are on the fringe, maybe go to a less competitive school...

There's probably (definitely?) some stuff you can knock Ruthsatz on, but this isn't one of them.