42 minutes ago, InItToWinIt said:

I would like to know examples of specific persons who Ruthsatz and Frederick discouraged from playing football. That is a strong accusation, and you can PM me about it. As @Voice of Reason mentioned with the Mayer brothers, that is a weak argument IMO.

This is hard to do, but I'd encourage people to put yourselves in a Coach's shoes: In general, if your job status is determined by wins and losses, who are you going to trust more to help you win games: The guy who you've been training and teaching how to play since June? Or the guy who hasn't picked up a basketball since before the June Dead Period? Every kid has a choice to make and there's nothing wrong with playing multiple sports. There is something wrong with a kid who is not working on basketball for 6 months, and assumes he should be inserted into the lineup over those other dedicated kids, and then blame it on the staff when it doesn't happen. Life does not work that way.

I will wait for an answer to bolded question. 

If playing less-talented kids' just because their Dad's and Uncle's legacies are more important than the program winning, I am surprised Thelen took that job. Didn't make it out to any games this year, but I heard from some people he played a tighter rotation that Ruthsatz. 

What bolded question?

18 minutes ago, PP1 said:

What bolded question?

@The Oracle asked "What are we not supposed to start a kid that's better than all the others just because he's new?"

I tried to bold it inside the quote.

1 hour ago, InItToWinIt said:

I would like to know examples of specific persons who Ruthsatz and Frederick discouraged from playing football. That is a strong accusation, and you can PM me about it. As @Voice of Reason mentioned with the Mayer brothers, that is a weak argument IMO.

This is hard to do, but I'd encourage people to put yourselves in a Coach's shoes: In general, if your job status is determined by wins and losses, who are you going to trust more to help you win games: The guy who you've been training and teaching how to play since June? Or the guy who hasn't picked up a basketball since before the June Dead Period? Every kid has a choice to make and there's nothing wrong with playing multiple sports. There is something wrong with a kid who is not working on basketball for 6 months, and assumes he should be inserted into the lineup over those other dedicated kids, and then blame it on the staff when it doesn't happen. Life does not work that way.

I will wait for an answer to bolded question. 

If playing less-talented kids' just because their Dad's and Uncle's legacies are more important than the program winning, I am surprised Thelen took that job. Didn't make it out to any games this year, but I heard from some people he played a tighter rotation that Ruthsatz. 

Chandler Starks, and his name should be bolded and underlined 3 or 4 times. Jake Walter. Noah Johnson. Donovan Bradshaw. Luke Lenihan.

10 minutes ago, InItToWinIt said:

@The Oracle asked "What are we not supposed to start a kid that's better than all the others just because he's new?"

I tried to bold it inside the quote.

I totally expected you to defend that question being asked. The problem wasn't the fact that Ruthsatz and staff were playing the better players. It was that they were completely casting aside the players who those better players were replacing. The problem was the fact that instead of coaching kids to get better there were coaches on staff texting players and telling them things like 'you best just transfer to another school if you ever want a chance at getting quality playing time on a varsity basketball team.' And its the fact that their entire defense of the way their system worked was to just restate that bolded question.

It’s stupid for a coach to put into writing something like that, but it’s nice they are being honest. I say if coaches of whatever sport would jut let be honest and say “I’m a coach that was hired to win a title in this sport so I need you 24/7”, instead of “I encourage you to play every sport possible," it would be a lot easier for all involved.

On 5/16/2025 at 2:04 PM, The Oracle said:

I totally expected you to defend that question being asked. The problem wasn't the fact that Ruthsatz and staff were playing the better players. It was that they were completely casting aside the players who those better players were replacing. The problem was the fact that instead of coaching kids to get better there were coaches on staff texting players and telling them things like 'you best just transfer to another school if you ever want a chance at getting quality playing time on a varsity basketball team.' And its the fact that their entire defense of the way their system worked was to just restate that bolded question.

These are strong accusations you make. Telling kids to transfer via text? The entire defense of 'their system' comes down to restating one question about playing more talented players?

You are reaching. 

 

On 5/16/2025 at 1:47 PM, The Oracle said:

Chandler Starks, and his name should be bolded and underlined 3 or 4 times. Jake Walter. Noah Johnson. Donovan Bradshaw. Luke Lenihan.

Confirmed with 2 of these parents over the weekend that your accusations are simply not true. 

 

It appears you have drank the CCH Good Ole boy Kool-Aid, and I don't anticipate you holding back, considering another perspective, or giving any credit to Scott for the 2 State Championships. Him hurting Johnny's feelings because he wasn't as talented at Jimmy, isn't worth the 2 banners in the gym. Give me a break.

On 5/19/2025 at 8:47 AM, InItToWinIt said:

These are strong accusations you make. Telling kids to transfer via text? The entire defense of 'their system' comes down to restating one question about playing more talented players?

You are reaching. 

 

Confirmed with 2 of these parents over the weekend that your accusations are simply not true. 

 

It appears you have drank the CCH Good Ole boy Kool-Aid, and I don't anticipate you holding back, considering another perspective, or giving any credit to Scott for the 2 State Championships. Him hurting Johnny's feelings because he wasn't as talented at Jimmy, isn't worth the 2 banners in the gym. Give me a break.

Not reaching. The texting flap occurred between Joe Fredrick and Logan Wermuth. Screenshots of the texts were sent to the diocese and that situation directly contributed to Joe's dismissal as assistant coach. My info about kids being pressured by basketball coaches not to play other sports aka football came directly from players in 3 of the 5 cases I mentioned. It isn't exactly news headline of the year when a parent isn't getting a complete story from their teenage son.

You can say I'm drinking CCH good ole boy KoolAid. Feel that way if you want but I think I've got a pretty long track record on here of openly criticizing CCH shortcomings when I've seen them. Its clear that you drink all the Scott Ruthsatz is a saint has never done wrong KoolAid that he and Nick have offered you. We clearly see situation this from opposite sides.

3 hours ago, The Oracle said:

Not reaching. The texting flap occurred between Joe Fredrick and Logan Wermuth. Screenshots of the texts were sent to the diocese and that situation directly contributed to Joe's dismissal as assistant coach. 

That is sad to hear. Wermuth was a Beechwood kid. A very good two sport athlete (basketball, baseball). I have high confidence in saying he transferred to CCH because of CCH basketball. Then you have an adult pressuring a teenager like this. Wermuth and his family sacrificed a lot to pursue an opportunity that then gets sabotaged by a self focused adult.

On 5/20/2025 at 9:26 AM, The Oracle said:

Not reaching. The texting flap occurred between Joe Fredrick and Logan Wermuth. Screenshots of the texts were sent to the diocese and that situation directly contributed to Joe's dismissal as assistant coach. My info about kids being pressured by basketball coaches not to play other sports aka football came directly from players in 3 of the 5 cases I mentioned. It isn't exactly news headline of the year when a parent isn't getting a complete story from their teenage son.

You can say I'm drinking CCH good ole boy KoolAid. Feel that way if you want but I think I've got a pretty long track record on here of openly criticizing CCH shortcomings when I've seen them. Its clear that you drink all the Scott Ruthsatz is a saint has never done wrong KoolAid that he and Nick have offered you. We clearly see situation this from opposite sides.

According to the Diocese of Covington, Joe is in good standing with the Diocese (attached). 

We all strive to be saints but none of us are - nobody else is standing up for Nick and his Dad. CCH cornered them out, and the old-school traditional supporters are piling on. Despite the undeniable positives they brought to the community, in addition to changing the status quo for many. As Mick Cronin would say, "the common words of every dying business are 'this is the way we've always done things.'"

Lastly, 2 State Championships should be enough to warrant a HOF Induction. I hope we can all agree on that statement. 

You are correct though regarding this specific context, we both have a 180 view from one another. 

I was talking about this with a former Cov Cath coach (non-basketball) and he made an interesting point. I don't know how relevant it necessarily is at the end of the day, but omitting Coach Ruthsatz as well as Coach Mosher who coached the cross country, indoor track, and outdoor track teams to their recent state championships, there are still 3 coaches who coached teams to state titles and are not in the hall of fame: (1.) Fr. John McDermott, who started the Cov Cath swim team and won the first-ever state championship trophy for the school with the swim team in 1962, (2.) Tony Lanham who was the second varsity football coach at Cov Cath and also coached the golf team to win the school's second-ever state championship trophy in 1969, and (3.) Josh McCoy who has been a faculty member for 19 years and coached the track team to its first state title in 2009.

On 5/21/2025 at 3:39 PM, InItToWinIt said:

According to the Diocese of Covington, Joe is in good standing with the Diocese (attached). 

We all strive to be saints but none of us are - nobody else is standing up for Nick and his Dad. CCH cornered them out, and the old-school traditional supporters are piling on. Despite the undeniable positives they brought to the community, in addition to changing the status quo for many. As Mick Cronin would say, "the common words of every dying business are 'this is the way we've always done things.'"

Lastly, 2 State Championships should be enough to warrant a HOF Induction. I hope we can all agree on that statement. 

You are correct though regarding this specific context, we both have a 180 view from one another. 

Here is that attachment that @InItToWinIt is sharing with us.

On 5/21/2025 at 3:39 PM, InItToWinIt said:

According to the Diocese of Covington, Joe is in good standing with the Diocese (attached). 

We all strive to be saints but none of us are - nobody else is standing up for Nick and his Dad. CCH cornered them out, and the old-school traditional supporters are piling on. Despite the undeniable positives they brought to the community, in addition to changing the status quo for many. As Mick Cronin would say, "the common words of every dying business are 'this is the way we've always done things.'"

Lastly, 2 State Championships should be enough to warrant a HOF Induction. I hope we can all agree on that statement. 

You are correct though regarding this specific context, we both have a 180 view from one another. 

 

On 5/23/2025 at 2:36 PM, theguru said:

Here is that attachment that @InItToWinIt is sharing with us.

Correct. Fredrick was removed as assistant coach at CCH in the fallout following his text exchange with Logan Wermuth. Then Fredrick immediately contacted Deacon Jim Fortner, chief operating officer of the Diocese, and met with him to discuss. It is important to point out that Jim Fortner had not been involved in the decision making process to remove Fredrick from his coaching position at CCH. Also important to point out that Fredrick and Fortner had a relationship dating back 15 years prior to a handful of years that Fredrick spent coaching his and Fortner's sons. In fact the two may have even coached the team together at one point. Anyway, Fredrick pressured Fortner about his status with the Diocese since he felt it may reflect poorly on him in his professional career. Fortner backed off on the stance taken by the parties who released Fredrick from his coaching job and he told Fredrick all was good. Fredrick asked for that in writing and Fortner capitulated, getting him a letter from the Diocese stating that he was in good standing to volunteer and work within the Diocese. That would be the letter that was being mentioned and was attached in the posts above.

It makes zero sense to me why the Diocese would do that but the Diocese oftentimes does things that make zero sense to me. Connections will get you places though. Fact remains that Fredrick was let go as a CCH assistant coach for texting Logan Wermuth and essentially telling him to transfer out of CCH, and then he was also given a letter by the Diocese that he was in good standing.

1 hour ago, The Oracle said:

 

Correct. Fredrick was removed as assistant coach at CCH in the fallout following his text exchange with Logan Wermuth. Then Fredrick immediately contacted Deacon Jim Fortner, chief operating officer of the Diocese, and met with him to discuss. It is important to point out that Jim Fortner had not been involved in the decision making process to remove Fredrick from his coaching position at CCH. Also important to point out that Fredrick and Fortner had a relationship dating back 15 years prior to a handful of years that Fredrick spent coaching his and Fortner's sons. In fact the two may have even coached the team together at one point. Anyway, Fredrick pressured Fortner about his status with the Diocese since he felt it may reflect poorly on him in his professional career. Fortner backed off on the stance taken by the parties who released Fredrick from his coaching job and he told Fredrick all was good. Fredrick asked for that in writing and Fortner capitulated, getting him a letter from the Diocese stating that he was in good standing to volunteer and work within the Diocese. That would be the letter that was being mentioned and was attached in the posts above.

It makes zero sense to me why the Diocese would do that but the Diocese oftentimes does things that make zero sense to me. Connections will get you places though. Fact remains that Fredrick was let go as a CCH assistant coach for texting Logan Wermuth and essentially telling him to transfer out of CCH, and then he was also given a letter by the Diocese that he was in good standing.

Are you admitting, that the Diocese engaged in behavior that wasn't fully truthful? Would you go as far to say that they are actually capable of making the wrong choice?

On 5/25/2025 at 11:43 AM, InItToWinIt said:

Are you admitting, that the Diocese engaged in behavior that wasn't fully truthful? Would you go as far to say that they are actually capable of making the wrong choice?

I don't really feel like I said anything regarding acting untruthful, but I'm not shocked you're trying to grasp at that straw. I said the actions of some of the people at the Diocese made zero sense to me, but I didn't say they were being untruthful.

You know its a sign of a poor argument when someone starts trying to put words into the other person's mouth, right?

But yes I think the people at the Diocese are absolutely capable of making wrong choices about things. I think everyone is capable of making wrong choices. For example, I also think people who carte blanche believe everything that Joe Fredrick, Scott Ruthsatz, and Nick Ruthsatz say is overcompetently capable of making wrong choices. I'm yet to meet a person who hasn't made wrong choices. So yeah, the Diocese is also capable of making wrong choices. I think they have made wrong choices before. I just think personally that they made the right choice when they ushered Scott Ruthsatz out the door.

On 5/27/2025 at 9:27 PM, The Oracle said:

I don't really feel like I said anything regarding acting untruthful, but I'm not shocked you're trying to grasp at that straw. I said the actions of some of the people at the Diocese made zero sense to me, but I didn't say they were being untruthful.

You know its a sign of a poor argument when someone starts trying to put words into the other person's mouth, right?

But yes I think the people at the Diocese are absolutely capable of making wrong choices about things. I think everyone is capable of making wrong choices. For example, I also think people who carte blanche believe everything that Joe Fredrick, Scott Ruthsatz, and Nick Ruthsatz say is overcompetently capable of making wrong choices. I'm yet to meet a person who hasn't made wrong choices. So yeah, the Diocese is also capable of making wrong choices. I think they have made wrong choices before. I just think personally that they made the right choice when they ushered Scott Ruthsatz out the door.

I just asked you a question, attempting to understand your long winded, rantful response. I am not putting words in your mouth.

Thank you for admitting the bold; that was the answer to the questions was asking. 

 

I would encourage you to check your source on the Wermuth/Fortner/Diocese situation. You make a lot of strong claims and present them as fact, but when I go to ask the involved parties they don't add up to what you've said.