Maui Wowi!!!!!

[Frances Bavier]

My personal view is that any mind-numbing or changing substance should not be legal. Too many of today's youth use it to escape from reality instead of facing their situations and learning to deal and handle them.

 

This is exactly what happened during Prohibition, with alchohol. I think we can all agree that that experiment didn't work out quite the way some thought it would.

 

 

Frances

[Habib]

There is another side of the legalization debate that often flies under the radar. The way these drugs are grown in the third world is often under incredible oppression and cruelty by the gangs who control them. Broken governments either aid these gangs or are unable to control them. I can't imagine the same people who cry and complain about corporations oppressing the third world would be happy to see the U.S. put the stamp of approval on it. Legalization comes with the reformation of that. Of course we could grow our own, but I don't think we would be able to feed the need, if you know what I mean.

[ram2003]

Legalize it. Tax it. Save America from it's own humiliation (AKA the war on marijuana).

[ladiesbballcoach]

This is exactly what happened during Prohibition, with alchohol. I think we can all agree that that experiment didn't work out quite the way some thought it would.

 

 

Frances

And alcohol has made so many positive contributions to our society since then. Child/Spousal Abuse, Physical problems, people killed from drunk drivers, etc, etc.

 

One of the ironic things I see in this argument is a mindset of that if people are going to do it anyway, we might as well make it legal. Glad we don't carry that mindset over into other parts of our lives.

 

Teenagers are going to sneak out of the house, so I just might as well let them go.

Teenagers are just going to fight and cuss, so I just might as well let them have it out in the classroom.

Adults are just going to speed, so we should just get rid of speed limits. 70 MPH through the school zone is okay.

 

I just don't get the mindset that since SOME PEOPLE are going to break the law we should just get rid of the law. We continue with that mindset and we see the continued degrading of our society that we have been experienceing the past 20-30 years.

 

The free love hippie stage of the late 60's and 70's has led into the students of today that feel they should get to do whatever and whenever they want to do. You don't like your life or want to deal with your problems, take this pill, smoke this and you want have to deal with it. And when you sober up, take it some more so you still won't have to deal with it.

 

I see NO POSITIVES FOR A SOCIETY in that mindset at all.

[ladiesbballcoach]

Legalize it. Tax it. Save America from it's own humiliation (AKA the war on marijuana).

I have not had one moment of humilation because this country stands up to drugs. NOT ONE.

[Frances Bavier]

And alcohol has made so many positive contributions to our society since then...

 

LBBC -

 

I am not (nor is anyone else) trying to make the case that alchohol or drugs is a positive influence (in any way) for our society.

 

My point about the Prohibition Act, and the illegalization of alchohol went on for 13 years in this country, and the end result was the explosion of power for organized crime. Alchohol never did stop flowing in this country, nor was it even close. The comparisons to the criminalization of drugs such as cocaine and marijuana is obvious.

 

The war on drugs has resulted in the flow of billions of dollars from this country into the coffers of the Columbia drug cartel, and others. This money is used to prop up corrupt governments across South America.

 

I am not espousing the use of these drugs, but the regulation of them in a sensible way that does not fund the very people that we are fighting.

 

I do not believe for one minute that the legalization will curb the usage of these drugs, but after 25 years, it is self obvious that the criminalization isn't slowing there usage at all, and in fact, is a case of trying to legislate morality exactly as Prohibition did - predictably, with the same outcome.

 

 

 

Frances

[ladiesbballcoach]

LBBC -

 

I am not (nor is anyone else) trying to make the case that alchohol or drugs is a positive influence (in any way) for our society.

 

My point about the Prohibition Act, and the illegalization of alchohol went on for 13 years in this country, and the end result was the explosion of power for organized crime. Alchohol never did stop flowing in this country, nor was it even close. The comparisons to the criminalization of drugs such as cocaine and marijuana is obvious.

 

The war on drugs has resulted in the flow of billions of dollars from this country into the coffers of the Columbia drug cartel, and others. This money is used to prop up corrupt governments across South America.

 

I am not espousing the use of these drugs, but the regulation of them in a sensible way that does not fund the very people that we are fighting.

 

I do not believe for one minute that the legalization will curb the usage of these drugs, but after 25 years, it is self obvious that the criminalization isn't slowing there usage at all, and in fact, is a case of trying to legislate morality exactly as Prohibition did - predictably, with the same outcome.

 

 

 

Frances

I agree wholeheartedly that despite it being illegal, there are still problems with it. But I do not agree that making it legal solves the dilema.

 

I do believe for some youth, it being illegal WILL be a big reason they would not try it. It is the crutch they want to say no to the peer pressure. If you make it legal at 21 like alcohol, that crutch is seriously weakened.

 

Youth sees 21 being adults telling them the ONLY problem with using it is your age, and that age thinks there are responsible adults anyhow.

 

Let me also add the arguments of medicinal use has merit and should be discussed. Usage for recreation purposes is where my position is that it should remain illegal.

[ram2003]

I have not had one moment of humilation because this country stands up to drugs. NOT ONE.

 

I wish I could say the same. I'm embarrassed every time I hear about someone arrested for possession, and seeing rap videos where that's all it's about. The humiliation comes not from the USA standing up to drugs, but because it's failing. This country is not successful in fighting the war on drugs, which is sad, because drug abuse is horrible.

 

But I think there would be MUCH more success if the focus wasn't on marijuana, and was placed on MUCH more harmful drugs; meth, cocaine, heroin, etc. These are the things that are causing the real problems.

 

I'd be VERY curious to see what would happen to the drug trade if marijuana was legalized. I think the positive effect would astound some people. I think the war on drugs would have it's biggest victory.

 

And for the record, I personally would have nothing gained if it were legalized. Marijuana is not a part of my life. I'm just trying to think about if from a logical standpoint.

[ladiesbballcoach]

I wish I could say the same. I'm embarrassed every time I hear about someone arrested for possession, and seeing rap videos where that's all it's about. The humiliation comes not from the USA standing up to drugs, but because it's failing. This country is not successful in fighting the war on drugs, which is sad, because drug abuse is horrible.

 

But I think there would be MUCH more success if the focus wasn't on marijuana, and was placed on MUCH more harmful drugs; meth, cocaine, heroin, etc. These are the things that are causing the real problems.

 

I'd be VERY curious to see what would happen to the drug trade if marijuana was legalized. I think the positive effect would astound some people. I think the war on drugs would have it's biggest victory.

 

And for the record, I personally would have nothing gained if it were legalized. Marijuana is not a part of my life. I'm just trying to think about if from a logical standpoint.

 

To me, your post implies the embarrassment is from how too many in this society has set marijuana up as some sort of positive thing in one's life rather than the US saying this should be illegal.

 

On your last part, and this might be better suited for a really interesting thread itself, has there really been more positives from the legalization of alcohol after prohibition?

 

With all of the deaths from DUI's, the drunken husbands that have abused their families, the physical problems associated with alcohol abuse, etc, etc. I am not sure that while organized crime was arguably dealt a seriously blow, society benefitted more from overturning Prohibition.

[Hearsay]

I wish I could say the same. I'm embarrassed every time I hear about someone arrested for possession, and seeing rap videos where that's all it's about. The humiliation comes not from the USA standing up to drugs, but because it's failing. This country is not successful in fighting the war on drugs, which is sad, because drug abuse is horrible.

 

But I think there would be MUCH more success if the focus wasn't on marijuana, and was placed on MUCH more harmful drugs; meth, cocaine, heroin, etc. These are the things that are causing the real problems.

I'd be VERY curious to see what would happen to the drug trade if marijuana was legalized. I think the positive effect would astound some people. I think the war on drugs would have it's biggest victory.

 

And for the record, I personally would have nothing gained if it were legalized. Marijuana is not a part of my life. I'm just trying to think about if from a logical standpoint.

 

I am not aware of your background, but the evidence I see every day in court does not lend credence to this statement. The damaging effects of marijuana on personal lives in Kentucky is astounding. The other drugs may PHYSICALLY be worse, but marijuana abuse is every bit as damaging as alcohol abuse in my experience.

 

However, I have been on record before that cannabis legalization from a purely economic standpoint (allocation of scarcity of resources) is a proposition worthy of serious study.

[ram2003]

I am not aware of your background, but the evidence I see every day in court does not lend credence to this statement. The damaging effects of marijuana on personal lives in Kentucky is astounding. The other drugs may PHYSICALLY be worse, but marijuana abuse is every bit as damaging as alcohol abuse in my experience.

 

However, I have been on record before that cannabis legalization from a purely economic standpoint (allocation of scarcity of resources) is a proposition worthy of serious study.

 

Is it marijuana alone that's affecting all of these people? I know it can be a gateway drug to some people, and I know that like anything, abusing it can be dangerous, so it makes sense to put more blame on marijuana in those cases, but I don't know of anyone whose life has been torn apart by marijuana alone. I'm not trying to say it doesn't happen, I'm just honestly curious about the rate in which it happens.

[ram2003]

To me, your post implies the embarrassment is from how too many in this society has set marijuana up as some sort of positive thing in one's life rather than the US saying this should be illegal.

 

I'm pretty much coming from both angles. There are too many that have set up marijuana (among other things) to be a positive thing... the 'cool' thing to do while you're young (or old, in Willie Nelson's case- any age, it doesn't matter) and not allowed to do it. This is indeed embarrassing.

 

But it's ALSO pretty embarrassing that while we let things like alcohol, and all sorts of medication that do as much if not more damage slide over the counter, and marijuana is getting a big finger shaken at it and getting thrown into commercials about how marijuana kills. Too much aspirin kills. A person who is too sick or too tired shouldn't get behind a wheel. It just seems to me that instead of trying to focus on teaching responsibility, the government is like "we'll just make it totally illegal" (which I believe helps to make it so appealling to people). Right now, the people that want it can get it. The people that they get it from, are probably not as trustworthy as people that process and approve it through the FDA (I know a few people that would laugh at me for saying that, but I believe it).

 

I also think there are lives at stake that we can take into consideration. How many people involved in drug deals are willing to shoot or rob the other party and take everything? After all, since it's illegal in the first place, who's going to tell?

 

There are plenty of arguments to make on both sides, but I'm leaning towards legalizing it.

 

On your last part, and this might be better suited for a really interesting thread itself, has there really been more positives from the legalization of alcohol after prohibition?

 

With all of the deaths from DUI's, the drunken husbands that have abused their families, the physical problems associated with alcohol abuse, etc, etc. I am not sure that while organized crime was arguably dealt a seriously blow, society benefitted more from overturning Prohibition.

 

 

I don't think it's that easy to compare marijuana and alcohol, though I see your point and it makes me curious as well. Though the numbers and society have changed a great deal, I bet there's a lot to look at there.

[T-CAT4LIFE]

I have not had one moment of humilation because this country stands up to drugs. NOT ONE.

 

It's not humilation.. But your tax dollars are fighting a war that can not be won.

[Hearsay]

It's not humilation.. But your tax dollars are fighting a war that can not be won.

 

We are not winning the War on Poverty, either. So I guess, then, that there should be no objection to canceling all welfare programs?

 

Hopelessness of cause does not equate to meaning that the fight should not be made.

 

Besides, I see the glass as half full. It all depends on how you look at "winning." If lives are saved as a result of drug busts on the micro-level, even if we don't stop the marijuana trade wholesale, I consider that a victory, at least for the lives that were saved.

[PepRock01]

However, I have been on record before that cannabis legalization from a purely economic standpoint (allocation of scarcity of resources) is a proposition worthy of serious study.

 

Speaking from a utilitarian perspective I concur.